Double NAT on Home Hub 4000 with an existing home LAN

[WalterG]

Is there an actual or potential double NAT issue with connecting my existing router to the 4000?  Are there settings on the 4000 to avoid this while retaining TV and phone connections?

I intend to use my existing wifi setup on my LAN.  Can I switch off the 4000 transmitter?

*Updated title & added Labels

[WalterG]

As I seem to have started this, I thought some of you might be interested in my experience now that I have had fibre and a 4000 modem installed in place of my previous copper connection with a really old Bell modem.  I have a single LAN connected to the 4000 through a Cisco router.  But I do not use the 4000 wifi as all my devices are (CAT 5 or 6) wire connected and I have two existing wireless access points on the LAN.

I changed the 4000's connection to my router to DMZ but not the advanced option, at least not yet.  So far I have not had any double NAT issues. 

Speeds are around 230 Mbps down and 160 Mbps up whether connected through the router or directly to the 400 - the former being higher than the 150 package I signed up for. 

I have two TV receivers (the originals that came with my copper connection) and, unexpectedly, the picture on both TVs is noticeably better.

WalterG

[BellDRock · Accepted solution]

Hey community! Great conversation. 

For a bridge mode setting; the DMZ / Advanced DMZ in the Advanced Tool section of the GUI should provide the necessary functionalities needed. 

Depending on the scenario you want to achieve, in your 3rd party device that should be connected on a LAN port you may also need to do some or all the following configuration tasks:

• Turn off Whole Home Wi-Fi and Primary Wi-Fi network on the HH4K / Enable Wi-Fi on device
• Turn  off DHCP in the HH4K / Enable DHCP on your device
• Configure PPPoE settings on your device by either inputting your Bell b1 and password [Bell Internet user ID (e.g., b1xxxxxx)] - (under the internet tab on the top page of the GUI) or inputting other credentials you may want to use.  This will circumvent the HH4K NAT.

[Zaba]

I have read the complete thread and appreciate everyone's contribution but frankly I am a little confused.

My network to modem connection speeds are 1.73Gb down and 1.05Gb up. The HomeHub 4000 is connected to an eero Pro 6 router using a Cat 6 cable. In my office is another eero Pro 6 router which is connected to a Dlink GO-SW-5G (5 port Gigabit unmanaged switch) which in turn is connected to the Dell G500 computer (Gigabit ethernet connection) with a Cat 6 cable. The computer is set up to bridge the Ethernet connection and the WiFi 6 connection). My connection speeds at the computer are 464-561Gb down and 285-687 Up. I am unaware of any issues, other than perhaps speed, which have arisen because I am running a Double NAT configuration (eero support site  says that a Double NAT setup can reduce speeds). I should add that the HomeHub 4000 also services two TVs using the HomeHub 4000 WiFi network.

I have been very happy with the coverage provided by my 3 eero routers (The house is a fairly large split) and do not want to dump them and rent I do not know how many Bell extenders.)  I read in the thread that enabling Advanced DMZ does not improve the speed (my problem) but does eliminate Double NAT issues (which I do not have).

Any suggestions on how to improve my modem to device speed will be greatly appreciated.

[adamadamadam]

Just got Bell 3 Gbps symmetrical fibre with the Giga Hub 4000. Very nice 😀

Tracert looks like it's doing double NAT. Is this second hop normal? Same thing when using PPPoE passthrough to another router. GH has the latest firmware (1.15.1).

tracert 1.1.1.1

Tracing route to one.one.one.one [1.1.1.1]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.2.1
  2     2 ms     1 ms     1 ms  10.11.35.81
  3     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  4     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  5     5 ms     6 ms     6 ms  glphon2248w_lag63.net.bell.ca [142.124.126.214]
  6     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  7     4 ms     4 ms     4 ms  cr02-toroonxnhrz_bundle-ether10.net.bell.ca [142.124.127.39]
  8     *        5 ms     5 ms  108.162.239.32
  9     5 ms     4 ms     5 ms  one.one.one.one [1.1.1.1]

Trace complete.

 Cheers!

[adamadamadam]

 I'm curious to see others' traces if you see that second hop private address too.

[dks]

Tracing route to one.one.one.one [1.1.1.1]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 265 ms 1 ms <1 ms mynetwork.home [192.168.2.1]
2 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 10.11.5.33
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 10 ms 9 ms 9 ms glphon2248w_lag62.net.bell.ca [142.124.126.212]
6 * * * Request timed out.
7 10 ms 9 ms 8 ms cr01-toroonxnhe9_bundle-ether10.net.bell.ca [142.124.127.37]
8 9 ms 8 ms 9 ms 108.162.239.32
9 10 ms 9 ms 9 ms one.one.one.one [1.1.1.1]

Firmware is 1.16

[Maniac911]

Good evening

Been with Bell for quite a bit of time with no issues. About 8 months ago (rough guess) I upgraded from an HH3000 to an HH4000. Setup has been with an advanced DMZ with a PPPOE connection to my firewall. As of 7am today it appears advanced DMZ has stopped working all together. I temporarily worked around it by disabling the ADMZ but this is causing double NAT issues. Seems firmware was upgraded to 1.7.8.1 this morning which I believe is causing the issue. Spoke to a Bell tech earlier today who mentioned this is a known issue.
Is there any proper update to this? Firmware rollback? Or some work in progress that’s addressing this issue? 

[networkadminwanabe]

I followed the above instructions to connect my Ubiquiti EdgeOS router and while the internet worked fine, the TVs stopped working. I rebooted them hoping that they would reconnect but they would not. So I turned the HH4K DHCP back on and the TVs reconnected with no impact on the internet connection. I'm not sure if this is the correct configuration but it's working.

If there is a way to connect the TVs without the DHCP let me know.

[dks]

---

@networkadminwanabe wrote:

I followed the above instructions to connect my Ubiquiti EdgeOS router and while the internet worked fine, the TVs stopped working. I rebooted them hoping that they would reconnect but they would not. So I turned the HH4K DHCP back on and the TVs reconnected with no impact on the internet connection. I'm not sure if this is the correct configuration but it's working.

If there is a way to connect the TVs without the DHCP let me know.

---

Is it possible the TV's are connecting wirelessly? For a user-based answer, I encourage you to post in the Bell Canada forum on DSL Reports. There are many other pfSense users there who can give informed advice on your question. You will have to register for a free account. Bell has been there as a formal technical presence for well over a decade through the Bell Direct forum, but they won't answer a question like yours. OTOH, there is a solid user base in the Bell forum, who can. 

https://www.dslreports.com/forum/sympat 

[FumbleJ]

Here are the potential pitfalls and why some people NEED to be able to have advanced features on the Bell (Sagecom) modems enabled.

1. Some of us do not want TV from Bell or any other provider. So keeping the WIFI for TV enabled despite disabling HH Wifi causes some interference and potential range issues.
2. Some of us do want a faster router to take advantage of local LAN at >1Gbps. The CPU on Sagecom router handling SFP+, Routing, Switching AND wifi gets bogged down. We need to be able to route from an upstream router to leave SFP job to the HHx000
3. 4 1Gbps ETH ports on a device is not sufficient or ports are not fast enough for local LAN for some people. Switching via a multi-port multi-speed switch is desirable. Some also need POE which adds to the issue on the HHx000
4. Despite having WIFI6e, the HH4000 needs to be in an area with high visibility to provide proper WIFI. Sometimes (read most times) this is not possible nor desirable. Mesh WIFI in my experience has been poor so again, some of us need to rely on separate AP to cover WIFI properly. This compounds the switching problem, the port availability problem and the load on HHx000 problem. Also, getting a POE injection to power an external AP if you rely on the HHx000 means you will have one more device to tangle with.
5. SFP+ being hardwired in the HH4000 is a seriously bad idea. I understand why Bell asks Sagecom to do this for them but... there are 0 advantages for the end user, only disadvantages. Sometimes, all we need is to get the fiber IN and pay the bill. We don't really need tech services unless the fiber goes down.
6. All routers/modems have a bridge mode. This is simply obfuscated in the custom firmware Sagecom makes for Bell. True bridge mode CAN be enabled on the HH4000 but it is not exposed at Bell's requirement. to give you an idea, you CAN get the same Fibe service backend via EBOX for example without the HHx000. They provide a Nokia ONT and a router (that you can elect not to use) and route + connect through a router box like OPNSense or PfSense. Yeah, if a client cannot figure it out on how to configure this kind of setup, Bell Support will not be able to help... but that's the price some of us are able to pay. Support for customers that do not know what to do or how to do it should be RESET MODEM SETTINGS and that's it.

So, @BellDRock if you want to bring some comments back up, that would be a "power user" wishlist. Bell can both enable ease of use to neophytes and non-tech people but can also enable powerful features for more serious and adventurous users. All I want to do is secure my network, block ads and telemetry, have the fastest ping possible and the best up/down bandwidth I pay for. All of this without restricting my LAN to 1Gbps or WIFI speeds or possibility to LAGG connections internally. See why we ask for these?

Home networks are more and more looking like business networks with more limited number of users and required uptime. But we still need to be able to give ourselves some way to protect our personal data AND corporate accesses. 

Care to look at what you offer and help your clients?