How to use 3rd party router with Home Hub 4000

[Macwin]

I cannot put the Home Hub 4000 in my office where I want it to be and I want to know if a second router can be a solution.

I currently have DSL internet. My Home Hub 2000 is in my office plugged into my phone line. It is my only source of Wi-Fi and gives the rear of my house adequate coverage, however coverage in the front of my house could be improved. My computer is connected to it via Ethernet, and other devices in my office get a strong Wi-Fi signal of course. Bell is decommissioning the copper lines and I must switch to fiber. The fiber optic cable can only be installed in my basement. Therefore the Home Hub 4000 unit must go in my basement (the worst place in the house to put it).

This might provide the front of my house slightly better Wi-Fi coverage but will provide poor Wi-Fi coverage to my office. Since I cannot have the Home Hub 4000 in my office, I would then prefer to have a second third party router in my office to which I could connect my computer via Ethernet, and have a strong Wi-Fi signal there as well. I do have a CAT5 Ethernet cable installed from my office to the basement area. I would like to connect a third party router via this ethernet cable to the Home Hub 4000 in the basement. I would like to use this router similar to a "range extender" and have it run on the same Wi-Fi network as the Home Hub 4000, and also plug my computer into it via an Ethernet patch cable. In other words, use the second router to replicate the setup I currently have in my office, but still use the Wi-Fi from the Home Hub 4000 for improved coverage in the front part of the house.

Bell Tech Support told me that I could connect a second router but would have to either run it as a second network and have devices switch in between the two, or turn off the Wi-Fi signal on the Home Hub 4000. I do not want to have a second or separate Wi-Fi network. Instead I want to use the additional router in a way that is similar to the way a Pod Wi-Fi extender would work, except for the fact that this second router will be connected via Ethernet to the Home Hub 4000 and provide Ethernet ports in my office for my computer.

My question is, is what I have described possible? I know that the Home Hub 4000 does not have bridge mode capability, and I have read other threads that offer very complicated solutions that I am not capable of executing. Can I simply plug in a third party router via Ethernet cable to the Home Hub 4000 and use it in the way as described without complicated settings on either router? My first preference would be to have the Home Hub 4000 in my office. My second backup option would be to have a second router in my office to be used as described. Worst case scenario is I am stuck with the Home Hub 4000 in my basement with no better solution. I would even prefer to have an Optical Network Terminal installed in my basement connected to my own third party router in the office via Ethernet, but this is not an option. Please help.

[ZaneP · Accepted solution]

Hi @Macwin ,

Some thoughts:

• who told you that the new installation of fibre must terminate in the basement? Was that based on a site survey, a chat or phone conversation with Bell, etc? (Is that where the demarc is for the copper service?)
• Basements are awful places: the wifi reception will be really poor. I wouldn't accept having the HH4000 there, if I were you.Have it pulled to your office or somewhere else in the house: 2nd floor would be ideal.
• To improve wifi coverage, which you mentioned is needed, Bell has wifi pods which could be a cost-effective solution. Info here: https://www.bell.ca/Bell_Internet/Products/WiFi. The configuration is straightforward, and you use the Bell app to do so.
• Another option is an inexpensive second router, which you would need to configure as an Access Point. Lots of information available on various brands, reviews, etc. Just do a search on WAP or Access Point.

Hope this helps. Keep us posted!

I don't work for  Bell, I'm just a customer

[Macwin]

- "Who told you...fibre must terminate basement?"
This was determined several ways.
1.) I spoke directly to the contractor at time of fibre install on street. A fibre line was run to my house for future install. It was run to the only workable location which was near unfinished basement area. Other locations were not possible due to things like attached garage, concrete driveway, etc. Getting the line into my office from outside was not feasible due to its location around the back of my house.
2.) I spoke to Bell tech. support level 1, and then tech. support level 2 supervisor. After describing my site conditions and where the fibre line is currently terminated on the outside of my house they told the basement was the only option, and that this is the case for many Bell customers because of the combined modem/WiFi router nature of the HH 4000, (as opposed to the HH 2000 which would use a separate ONT in the basement while placing the HH WiFi router in the office).
3.) I hired a private network installer/contractor and paid a consultation fee to do a site assessment and advise me of my installation options. He was a previous Bell employee, and currently occasionally subcontracts fibre installs for them. He confirmed that given my specified parameters (see below) and location of my phone jacks, available power receptacles, usable wall space, etc. the only possible placement was in the basement.

Note my specified parameters were that I do not want to run long lengths (i.e. 10-20 metres) of fibre cable along the brick on the outside of my house. Similarly, it is not possible to get a fibre line from the basement to my office (or any other usable location) without running long lengths along ceiling corners, baseboards, door frames etc. which I do not want.

- "is that where the demarc is for the copper service?"
Yes, main copper POTS line comes into basement and connects to BIX block which divides 2-line service to multiple jacks.

-"basements are awful...have it pulled to your office"
I agree, bad location. Unfortunately, I cannot pull a fibre line to my office without considerable expense (i,e. breaking drywall, repainting, hiring private contractor etc.) and I do not want to live with unsightly surface mounted cables all over my walls.

-"improve WiFi coverage...Bell has WIFi pods."
I am familiar with the Pods which I did mention in my original post, but this by itself, does not solve the primary problem of needing a WiFi router in my office. If I can achieve this objective as described in the original post and use both routers on the same network with the second one acting just like a Pod, then I would not need Pods.

-"Another option is...second router"
Yes, this is what I am asking about, but my searches have produced extremely complicated instructions for re-configuring the routers and often focus on deactivating the WiFi component of the HH4000 in order to use a better more advanced router. I am trying to determine if I can actually use a second router simply as a "range extender" in my office connected to the HH4000 via Ethernet, and if I can, what are the steps needed to accomplish this. A Bell level 2 tech. support rep. told me I would have to run the second router on is own WiFi network and possibly turn off WiFi on HH4000 but he did not offer the option of running both on the same network as described above. Therefore, this is all very confusing and I cannot seem to get a definitive answer.

[ZaneP]

There's always a trade-off between aesthetics and practicality (each with an associated cost). But since there seems to be no appetite for another approach (like perhaps tucking the fibre run under the eavestroughs), as well as the requirement for VoIP phone service using existing phone jacks, etc, your specified parameters may be tying your hands somewhat.

Given the above, I suggest you should commit to running ethernet from the basement upstairs. If it can't be pulled behind walls, then a cable cover is certainly an option.This will give wired backhaul to a wireless access point, or to one of the pods, or to a range extender.

I understand that there are a number of moving parts to your situation and it can be confusing. If this continues, perhaps it would be money well spent to have a networking specialist consult with you (and that's not me). They can give you a LAN solution, with a cost estimate, which resolves the wifi coverage issues that the impending location of the HH4K has created.

All the best on this. 

ZaneP

[Macwin]

Fortunately I have a cat5e cable already running from my office to the basement. I'm now considering connecting an access point in my office via the ethernet cable instead of an actual router, since my use case is really calling for turning the third party router into a glorified access point anyway. The access point would act as a range extender but be hardwired back to the Home Hub 4000. I'm not sure why this was not suggested to me sooner but I suspect it's because when people want to use a third party router it's due to the superior capabilities of that router and they are much more tech savvy. In my case I'm looking for a much simpler solution which the access point might provide. In this situation I would still be using the Home Hub 4000 Network and avoid complicated settings and changes. Another option is as you said is using one of the Pod extenders. None of this is ideal but it's workable. I just wish Bell didn't limit the install options by the way they configure their devices. A separate ONT in the basement would solve the problem. Brll did offer this at one time but no longer does to residential customers. 

I did in fact pay a network specialist for a consult on the layout at my house. We did discuss some of the more expensive options of running wires. He confirmed my basic options given my personal restrictions, and suggested the best way to handle it was to have Bell do the install under the current circumstances and once done he would better be able to assess how to improve it if I wanted to go further. So I hope I'll eventually be able to get this worked out to a acceptable conclusion. Thanks for your advice. 

[ZaneP]

Thanks for the reply. I suggested you use wired ethernet as a backhaul to an access point (or pod, or range extender) because it's appropriate, given the environment you described. Why no-one else suggested it is unknown, but I speculate they were over-thinking a solution (a common problem).

I hope that all goes well and you have a solid and reliable LAN when the setup is complete. Best of luck.

ZaneP

[Novice]

Similar problem: I have range extenders that worked with the previous Homehub 4000 but don’t with the the latest Giga Hub. replacement was done due to degraded speed in the previous Homehub but the previous Homehub used to connect to the range extenders seamlessly as well as to third party garage camera. The speed on the latest Giga hub is fine but I don’t have connectivity to the extenders. I prefer to use extenders instead of pods. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

[ZaneP]

Hi @Novice 

When I subscribed to Bell's fibre service I briefly used 3rd-party range extenders with the HomeHub 4000. It wasn't the best solution to coverage problems, so I replaced them with Powerline adapters.

I chose not to rent Bell's pods back then, but am now reconsidering.

I'm quite surprised that your range extenders don't work with the Giga Hub. There should be no significant differences from the HH4K. Did you do a factory reset on them and try again to connect? 

[Novice]

Thanks ZaneP for your reply. Yes I did a factory reset on each of the 4 range extenders, restarted router etc, Bell Wifi App sees them and their address etc but no connection. Don’t want to call Bell to solve since it’s 3rd party and they’ll recommend hubs ($5 per hub per month rent, at least here in Kingston Ontario).

[ZaneP]

This is very strange.You can see that the range extenders are transmitting their own wi-fi signals? But no device is connecting to them? And you've installed them with the app provided by the manufacturer (like TP-Link, Netgear)?

Did you reboot the Giga after installing the extenders? Could there be a radio band issue?

What are you seeing on the Giga's dashboard, in My Devices?

Sorry for all the Q's and not enough A's! Hopefully people with deeper range extender knowledge than mine will get involved here. Something is messed up, and you're right...Bell typically won't get involved with 3rd party equipment issues. Keep in mind that Bell's Pods are creating a mesh network, and may be worth the monthly rental. You'll get tech support too.

[Novice]

Yes, the range extenders are transmitting their Wifi, of the four lights: Extender, SYS, Wifi, Power, only the Extender is dark, which wasn’t with the previous Homehub 4000, each was green. If I was to get Bell pods, could I use these extenders (make Wi-Fi 4) in addition to the pods? Ie if I was to get the extenders working?  My work environment is full of angles and different floors and I would like to use the extenders, in addition to pods to perhaps boost the pod signalling? Novice question but advice welcome! Thanks.

[ZaneP]

• Did you explicitly separate the radio bands in the HomeHub 4000 before setting up your range extenders?
• Is the above a requirement for your range extenders? If so, did you separate the bands on the Giga?
• Did you follow the trouble-shooting guide on your particular make and model of range extenders?
• Mixing traditional range extenders and mesh network devices (Bell's pods) is creating an unnecessary complication and is unlikely to work
• Have you verified that wifi is working on the Giga? What do you see on the Giga's dashboard: Advanced Tools and Settings --> Diagnostics. Are there green checkmarks beside all the radio bands?

Again, I recommend that you move to a mesh network based on Bell's Pods. Yes there is a monthly cost but you'll get tech support. A mesh network will be an improvement over using extenders (in my opinion).

I hope others start contributing to this conversation!

[Novice]

Thanks ZaneP for your perceptive posts. As a novice I made a novice error: I didn’t push the pin into the reset long enough to reset the extenders! I believe the optimum time is 10-15 seconds, once I held the pin in long enough the extenders reset and I was able to go through the additional steps to get them working. I didn’t need to reset with the original HomeHub since they came factory reset. Thanks for your help, it is encouraging that you engage in small and big issues, adding to our communal understanding.

[ZaneP]

Hi @Novice 

Very glad to hear that you got your extenders working properly!

I was happy to help you.

[Anonymous2]

The default Bell Home Hub is signal is not reaching certain areas of a 1500 square foot home. Can a two devices that provide mesh wifi be installed on Bell internet instead of the home hub?