Using PPPoE and DMZ / Advanced DMZ for 'Bridge Mode' use of 3rd Party router on the HH4000 & Giga Hub

[navderek]

It would be great if Bell could confirm if they are going to update the FW on the HH4000 to enable a true bridge mode setup...also to stop the Wifi from automatically re-enabling itself anytime the HH4000 reboots itself. These are two MAJOR issues right now with the HH4000 and posted about on many forums (not just here).

It would be great if someone from Bell could chime in and let the community know if it is actually going to address these issues or not? If not, please explain why and please do not point to advanced DMZ as a solution because that doesn't actually work very well and severely impacts the performance on the Google Mesh (or any other pre-existing mesh setup). This is also discussed on many forums both on this one and externally by your customers.

We do realize the HH4000 is relatively new so there can be some improvements. We, as a community, just want to know if Bell plans to make those improvements or not.

Thanks,

-Derek

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

❗AI Summary: 

When attempting to use a third-party router, customers frequently encounter networking challenges due to the absence of a true 'bridge mode'. This limitation has led to a variety of solutions involving PPPoE and the Advanced DMZ feature to avoid issues like double NAT; where two devices on the network are performing Network Address Translation (NAT). Double NAT can lead to problems with online gaming, port forwarding, and other applications that require a direct connection to the internet.

Some complications you may experience:

• Wi-Fi auto re-enabling: Even when disabled, the Bell Home Hub's Wi-Fi can turn back on after a reboot.
• Advanced DMZ limitations: Advanced DMZ can be unreliable, especially with third party mesh systems. PPPoE is preferred by users in this scenario.
• IP lease and connectivity drops: Devices lose connection when the public IP changes, requiring manual reconfiguration.
• Performance degradation: Speeds, especially download speeds can drop over time. A reboot or modem reset will be needed to restore.
• No static IPs: IP changes cause disruptions. Using DDNS can be considered.

In response, Bell Community users have detailed two primary methods to approximate a bridge mode: PPPoE passthrough and the use of the Advanced DMZ feature.

User-Shared Solutions:

PPPoE Passthrough: Often described as more stable and straightforward; it involves configuring the third-party router to establish the PPPoE connection directly with Bell. This effectively bypasses the Bell Home Hub 4000, Giga Hub and Giga Hub 2.0's routing functions, providing the third-party router with its own public IP address. To do this, users typically need to obtain their "b1" username and password from Bell. While stable, a significant drawback of this method is a potential reduction in internet speeds, particularly on plans faster than 500 Mbps, as many consumer routers struggle with the overhead of PPPoE.

Advanced DMZ: This method involves placing the third-party router in the modem's "Advanced Demilitarized Zone." This exposes the third-party router directly to the internet, which can result in higher performance. However, this solution is often reported to be less stable. For instance, rebooting your router might necessitate a subsequent reboot of your Giga Hub/Giga Hub 2.0 to restore the internet connection. Some have also reported experiencing lag spikes with this configuration. When using Advanced DMZ, it is advised to leave the login information on the third-party router blank, as entering PPPoE credentials can cause the connection to fail.

Configuration Tips from the Bell Community:

• When setting up either method, it's recommended to disable the Wi-Fi on the Bell Giga Hub/Giga Hub 2.0 to prevent interference.
• For PPPoE passthrough, connecting the WAN port of the third-party router to any LAN port on the Bell hub and configuring the router with your b1 credentials is the general procedure.
• For Advanced DMZ, users need to enable the feature in the Giga Hub/Giga Hub 2.0's settings and assign their third-party router to it. It's also highly recommended to not plug other devices directly into the Bell hub for security reasons when using Advanced DMZ.

Ultimately, the choice between PPPoE passthrough and Advanced DMZ depends on the user's priorities. If stability and ease of setup are paramount, PPPoE passthrough is often the recommended choice. For those who prioritize performance and are willing to troubleshoot potential instabilities, Advanced DMZ may be the preferred option.

[navderek]

EXAMPLE:

https://www.reddit.com/r/bell/comments/qap1f2/bell_hh4000_slow_speed_with_my_own_router_dmz/

there are many, many other similar forum posts all over... Bell, are you there? Hello?

[krontech]

It's not really possible, since TV services are also provided through the modem. By bridging the modem you literally cut off the TV service's ability to access the network. DMZ is the correct way to go here. 

What they need to do is improve the advanced DMZ, to specifically work off the connected device's MAC alone, whereas now it operates by MAC and IP. When your IP (public) changes, connectivity is lost because the DMZ is set to the old IP. You have to manually remove the device from DMZ, reboot, and re-add the device to DMZ to restore functionality.

[BellDRock · Accepted solution]

Hi @navderek 

The reboot re- enabling WIFI issue you mentioned has been solved and should not re-occur.

For the Bridge mode portion in your post, the DMZ / Advanced DMZ in the Advanced Tool section of the GUI should provide the necessary functionalities needed. 

Depending on the scenario you want to achieve, in your 3rd party device that should be connected on a LAN port you may also need to do some or all the following configuration tasks:

• Turn off Whole Home Wi-Fi and Primary Wi-Fi network on the HH4K / Enable Wi-Fi on device
• Turn off DHCP in the HH4K / Enable DHCP on your device
• Configure PPPoE settings on your device by either inputting your Bell b1 and password [Bell Internet user ID (e.g., b1xxxxxx)] - (under the internet tab on the top page of the GUI) or inputting other credentials you may want to use.  This will circumvent the HH4K NAT.

[bokko]

Have been doing the Advanced DMZ since I received my HH3000 works fine up to 940/750 give or take. No trouble with remote access via assigned public IP. I would be able to pass 1.5gps if I use HH4000? Yes, I would have a Unifi UDM-Pro.

PS the only reason we don't have 1.5 is I can access it, stuck at 1gps.

Thanks

[bokko]

which has an SFP+ port...

[Street_Science]

I've lost my network switch's connection to Google WiFi router randomly and I think you just explained to me why. When I re-add the Google WiFi router, do I just put in it's same MAC address?

[Indirectelex]

I totally agree with Derek these are the two MAJOR issue I get. Of course the bridge mode is way more important then the WiFi but come on guys, we pay our internet at the highest price in the world so lets give us a reasonable good service...

[Indirectelex]

I know the HH4K don't have the Bridge Mode feature, this is a problem to me because I need this to work with my team on my server. Is there a way to solve this problem?

[rossnick · Accepted solution]

As explained by BellDRock above, you can simply plug your router into one of the lan ports and put your PPPOE username (b1xxxxx) and password on your own router. It'll have a publicly routable IP and then you'll be able to do whatever you want without the HH4000 in the way.

[navderek]

This workaround results in severe speed drop with the Google wifi router, so it's not really a good solution. Not sure why but once you get the Google router to handle the PPPoE connection the speed suffers greatly.

[Street_Science]

@navderek after connecting the Google Router, was it able to maintain the connection or did it eventually drop it? Even if I add my Bell user info to the router's  PPPoE it drops the connection to my devices after 24 hrs or so.  

My hardware.... 

ISP: Bell

Modem: Home Hub 4000 (Fibre)

Router: Google WiFi

Switch: TrendNet Gigabit Switch (TEG-S80g)

Connection: Modem to Router to Switch to Devices

Problem: I can get my Google router working and it connects to all my Google devices at home but reliably only through Wifi. I want to plug in my network switch to it so I can have a hardwire connection to my other devices like a TV and computers. The problem is that when I plug in the switch to my Google router, I get internet going to my switch for between 24 hrs to a few days. Then I suddenly lose the connection. My router will work, giving wifi if I don't plug in the switch. When I plug in the switch is when I think I have that problem of the IP lease time expiring or maybe the WAN IP address changes and my router loses the connection? I've read about all these issues here. 

After I lost the connection, I looked at the DMZ settings on the modem. The router that I had added was no longer the selected device. It was instead listing some unknown device with a different IP address. To fix it, I reselected my router from the list but my router then had a network error. To get it working again I had to disconnect the switch cable from it. It's like connecting the switch confuses it. Any suggestions? 

[rossnick]

I don't have a google router. I have a fortigate. For now, it's been stable since the last 24h (I only had fibe installed yesterday and was able to change my b1 password about 24h ago). I have the full speed I have on my plan (500).

[rossnick]

Kinda spoke too soon. A little bit before 24h after having put the pppoe user on my own router, there was a connection drop. Internet was not working for a couple of minutes, and my VPN connections with my office droped. I noticed at that moment that my IP changed. It occured one more time during the night also...

....

[Street_Science]

Yeah that's what happens to me too. I think it's the IP change that causes the drop. I've read that there is no way of customizing the frequency of the change and that Bell only offers static IPs to  businesses which is ignorant and infuriating because some regular people just want to hook up devices to their router for home entertainment and home office purposes. Now that people work from home more and are setting up smart homes our needs are more complex. That's my rant. Please let me know if you figure out how to get the connection to not drop to your router. And to the Bell admins, we're talking about routers here but it all stems from the HH4000 modem not providing static IPs.