Bell Sat TV... Simultaneous Substitution Practice Has Audio Problems

[budwich]

The practice is bad in general but it is even worst when it has audio drop out problems because the substituted channels isn't really the "same quality".... maybe.   No sure how many channels are impacted but its an issue with channel 1202 (CBS) when Bell decides to substitute the "YES TV" feed over the wheel of fortune program at 7 pm weekdays.   There appears to some sort of audio decode / sync issue of the stream.   I suspect the cbs channel is a "normal" video channel while the YES TV feed is a "rebroadcast streaming channel" much like some of the other channels that Bell recently "switched" from SD bandwidth to "HD" as part of the satellite "situation".  It has had jitter problems with the conversion.   In this case (substitution), the video is OK but the audio drops here and there (less than 1 second) as the decoder appears to have some issue with buffering / syncing.  

Anyone else notice this?   other channels?

[BellPatricia]

Hey there @budwich 

Thank you for keeping in touch with the Bell community 🙂 

We were able to monitor the recording from yesterday between 7pm-8pm in its entirety and did not encounter any audio issues. Can you verify if this impacts other channels during that time slot? 

What type of TV are you using, and is your receiver plugged directly into the TV or do you have third party equipment in between (such as a sound system)? Do you have any other receivers in your home, and if so, does this happen on them as well?

@BellPatricia 

[budwich]

Thanks for reply.   To answer your questions....  yes there is a AVR involved BUT it does not have any problems with the mentioned channels when the substitution is no longer on the channel in question (ie. 1202).  My TV on this system is a 4k sony.   I have not connected the sat receiver directly at this point because I don't believe that the tv is an issue.  

Further, I have posted that the PVR recording of the channel DOES NOT have the issue.   It is likely that the recording encoding is NOT the same as the "live event" signal.   IF you are using that method, then you are not seeing the "live signal characteristics".   One question that is not answered is how is the yestv feed being pickup by bell, as I outlined there are a few different options of how that is done in the system (based on my general understanding).   My "guesses" are that the feed is a "streaming feed" and NOT a broadcast feed but I have no information on that.  It is quite possible that errors in the audio feed can be corrected before the signal is recorded while errors in the live signal are just passed thru by the sat receiver and not happily by the avr... again, my guess.   Still further on this, as I have mentioned, the "SD channel" of yestv (ch 615) does not have the issue in the same time slot.   Bell also has ch 1651 for YESTV HD which is not available to my receiver so I don't know if it has the issue and if that is the feed used for the substitution.   Anyway, it certainly is an issue that appears to be less than "defined" as the "black boxes" at multiple points in the signal path are just that black boxes.   🙂

I will try moving another receiver to this location... I seem to recall trying that before when troubleshooting "jittering picture" which is kind of how this all started... bell changing satellites in the sky -> moving SD channels to some other form of signal -> various receivers reporting the issues on this forum  / community -> bell finding a "firmware fix" somewhere.   Pretty long line of events.

[budwich]

Ok... I hooked up my 6141 to the same setup (ie. swung the hdmi cable over from the 9242 along with the coax LNB cable).   No problem with audio on the 7pm timeslot with ch 1202 being substituted with yestv feed.  Swung everything back and the audio drops come back.   There is some sort of issue with audio stream coming from the yestv feed that the 9242 isn't handling well resulting in the audio in the hdmi to drop.

[budwich]

I found some "information" from "AI" for sound dropping from bell tv services.

Quote: "If you are using an older 9242 model, the receiver defaults to Dolby Digital unless set to "PCM Only." If you have chosen "Dolby Digital Only" but the program is only in PCM, you will hear nothing. 

• Navigate to Menu > System Setup > Audio.
• Select PCM Only to force the output. 

If these steps do not work, try turning off any external sound system and check if the sound works directly through the TV speakers, which can help narrow down if the problem is with the receiver, the HDMI cable, or the audio system. "

Based on this "info", it would appear that perhaps the audio stream loses it "sense of type" (DD or PCM), temporarily,  and then tries to resync causing the drop.  It would that the sat receiver is stuck in some form of "auto" audio (DD /PCM which would be a normal setting).   Even if one can change the audio output to some fixed from (either DD or PCM only), from the quote, it appears that the sat receiver may not be able to down mix or "up mix" to the appropriate audio type, should a channel "broadcast" a different audio type.   Currently, trying to change the audio out setting to "pcm only" does nothing and the output stays at DD (based on the incoming signal info at the AVR which is capable of handling ALL audio signal types, both "bitstream" and PCM).   However, I don't believe a given audio stream should be "randomly" switching back and forth between the two.   It is more likely a "stream error" that is causing the sat system to not handle the DD and thus tries to resync, dropping the audio for moments during that process.

ADDED:  I have been able to change the sat receiver output to "pcm only" by doing a "hard reset".   The AVR incoming signal is now PCM... so I will leave this in this mode until monday when the ch1202 substitution takes place to see if the audio drop still occurs.   It is likely to NOT occur since the "fallback" for audio when DD is unable to occur is PCM.   Will go from the results therein.   Remember though, this audio dropping ONLY occurs with the substitution of the particular feed to the particular channel and NO other instances have been found... but I don't know what or which channels have this type of substitution happening..... do you?

[budwich]

Another question:  are all bell sat channel "broadcast" as "dolby digital" or are some "PCM".   There seems to be some "funnies" in the way the 9242 handles the sound settings (in system setup menu).   This would appear to have some "strange interactions" with the DD MAT data that is sent out in hdmi land.   

[budwich]

Some testing today.   I changed the "dolby digital" sound modes playing with "DD only" and "PCM only".   When set to PCM only, there doesn't appear to be any drops (after 15 minutes of watch time).... of course, the sat receiver is only outputting 2 ch pcm which is quite "thin" in sound and data.   Changing back to DD only, the drops appear very quickly.   To induce these changes, I have change channels away from the channel and then back again.   Otherwise, the sat receiver does not appear to "induce" the change.   Seems some what "strange" as a format change in hdmi land usually causes some sort of "re-handshake / sync" to occur so I am not sure why it only happens at channel change operation (black box operation or fault?).   Anyway, still an issue which almost makes the program unwatchable for this channel at this time slot (YESTV substitution).

[BellNick]

Hi @budwich 
We have had this looked into since your initial post about it and our support teams were unable to replicate the issue you're experiencing. We have also not had any other reports in regards to this. If you're experiencing issues with the live stream but the recording is fine and the stream works fine on your other receiver, it is most likely an issue with your hardware and it would be recommended to have the receiver replaced with a newer model (as we no longer have 9242 models).
Should you require assistance with replacing your receiver, I've sent you a private message.
Please check your Messages within your profile avatar in the top right corner.
Unsure how to check or send a private message? See How to send a private message

[budwich]

I have replied to your PM.

I find it hard to believe that its a receiver issue at this point... although maybe a "generic one" as it is less than likely that you will find a lot of people having a similar setup (receiver / 4k tv) watching the substituted channel at this time slot and not thru the pvr recording.... so the odds are low.   My question to you then is what other YESTV substitution are being done and on what channel?   Seems to be a relatively easy question to answer depending on what bell access is available to "individuals".

[budwich]

❕Conversation moved to this thread.

Interesting problem.   I assume that you are doing this on a bell fibe box as opposed to bell sat tv.   Not sure whether this is related to my problem directly that this post was started for BUT my recent check of the substitution channel (YESTV) on my sat system seems to be working OK (ie. no audio drops) in the time slots as described.  I only checked for a few minutes today and yesterday.   Not sure what changed or why its working BUT maybe this problem that weezie is reporting is somewhat related as there appears to be "fingers in the pie" doing something.

I haven't tried recording the shows recently but in the past, on a sat tv pvr, it worked ok.

ADDED:   I see that the channel numbers are sat channels...   so you are having issues with a sat pvr... what model is it?   

[Wakka 1971]

I’ve noticed that if you go into the bell sat point to see that if the signal is below 79 you may have one channel with audio issues . At certain time . I had to change to a diffrent relay . 

[budwich]

I have not gone thru all of the transponders that are currently available BUT my signal level across a few is at 100%.  Having said that, how it that a given channel changes transponders without one doing anything AND it doing this problem on a "one program" instance as opposed the whole channel (in this case HD CBS 1202)... and only audio and no problems with the video portion.  I don't see it as a transponder issue.... but I will go thru the transponders to check their signal strength.

ADDED:  I checked all 32 transponders.... all at 100% except for a couple at 98%.... the transponder that the receiver is picking up for ch1202 is 25 and its at 100%.