Gmail claims no encryption to sympatico.ca email.

[jdabud-Davud]

Users are told by GMAIL that messages to sympatico.ca will not be encrypted. This is making some of our correspondents nervous about sending messages to us.

The recipient receives a warning like this:

Clicking on the unlocked icon gives a warning like this:

Looking at the security details in GMAIL in a message from a Sympatico sender one sees something like:

from: User Name <username@sympatico.ca>
to: GMAIL user name <GmailUserName@gmail.com>
date: Mar 1, 2023, 2:51 PM
subject: Re: Thunderbird Sympatico to GMAIL
mailed-by: sympatico.ca
security: Standard encryption (TLS) Learn more

The above seems to say that Sympatico sends encrypted messages but that Sympatico does not receive them.

That seems very unlikely to me, but we are talking about Bell.

Can someone please clarify this issue so that I can either reassure our correspondents or quit using Sympatico Email?

Thanks so much!

David.

[jdabud-Davud]

Comments gladly accepted.

Further to the original post:

Header analysis shows that emails from Outlook and GMAIL servers to Bell servers are not encrypted in any way. But emails between Outlook and GMAIL servers are TLS encrypted.

My understanding is that

Moreover, messages from Outlook and GMAIL servers have both SPF and DKIM signatures, while messages from Bell servers only have SPF. My understanding is that DKIM provides an extra level of assurance that the sender is not Spamming.

Thanks,

David.

[jdabud-Davud]

Email 'Received' headers on emails from Bell to Gmail servers show that messages are encrypted (by TLS).

However 'Received' headers on emails from Gmail to Bell servers do not show any encryption. Therefore, Gmail's claim that Bell email addresses are insecure is true.

What I don't understand is why this is true.

I am working to resolve this issue. Since I'm not a Bell employee my ability to do this is limited.

David.

[ZaneP]

Hi @jdabud-Davud 

 I assume your issue is urgent and it needs to be resolved. Have you called Bell Tech Support? . 1-844-310-7873.

[jdabud-Davud]

Hi @ZaneP ,

Thanks for your reply! Not urgent for me. I have other email addresses I can use with better security and, of course, there is PGP and S/Mime. Yes, I have raised an issue with Bell Support. I've heard back. So they are looking into it.

By the way, this is not just my issue. According to generally available data from Gmail 0% of emails going from Gmail to Bell/Sympatico are encrypted. Many other servers, including some of Bell's major competitors, get 100% both ways. So if this issue is urgent to anyone it should be urgent to Bell!

Also, normal (TLS) encryption only assures (to a high degree) that emails in transit cannot be decrypted by anyone who intercepts them.

Thanks, again.

David.

[ZaneP]

Hi @jdabud-Davud ,

"Users are told by GMAIL that messages to sympatico.ca will not be encrypted. This is making some of our correspondents nervous about sending messages to us".

This is why I thought your issue was urgent. You have senders who are concerned.

I moved off isp domain-based email a long time ago, in favour of other services.

When I want true end-to-end-encrypted email with trusted senders, I use ProtonMail. There are other services obviously but I like Proton's options and their other products.

Keep us posted on how it's going.

Cheers,

ZaneP

[jdabud-Davud]

Hello @ZaneP

Nothing from Bell yet.

Thanks for the recommendation. In the short term, I'm moving my correspondence away from Bell mail.

Proton sounds good. I'll look into it further.

Thanks again,

David.

[jdabud-Davud]

Still nothing from Bell. I have tested this from several non-Bell accounts. Here are my conclusions:

• Bell email does not use any form of in-transit encryption on messages from any tested non-Bell account. Tested domains include Gmail.com, Outlook.com, and Proton.
• Bell uses in-transit encryption (TLS, Transport Layer Security) on all outgoing messages to tested domains.
• Likely Bell does not use in-transit encryption from any non-Bell domain. Therefore, Bell gets it half right and can fix the other half.
• Therefore, Bell Email should not be used for any conversations that you would like to be kept private from third parties.
• All tested non-Bell domains use in-transit encryptions on messages sent and received between each other.

David.

Cc: @BellPatricia and @BellNick 

P.S. Very Important. Please do not use any account belonging to me to test this.

[Tyler1]

When I try to send an email to my sympatico account from gmail the message does not come thru. This is the message I receive in my Gmail box. Any thoughts

Message blocked Your message to XXXX as been blocked. See technical details below for more information.

The response from the remote server was: 554 Access Denied

Reporting-MTA: dns; googlemail.com 
Arrival-Date: Tue, 02 May 2023 16:02:34 -0700 (PDT)
X-Original-Message-ID: <XXXXXXXvRQq7Pg7XXXXXXXX@mail.gmail.com >

Final-Recipient: rfc822; XXXX@sympatico.ca 
Action: failed
Status: 5.0.0
Remote-MTA: dns; mx.sympatico.ca . (209.71.208.7, the server for the domain sympatico.ca .)
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 554 Access Denied
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 02 May 2023 16:10:29 -0700 (PDT)

From: Me <XXXX>

Subject: test

Date: May 2, 2023 at 7:02:23 PM EDT

To: Me <XXXX>

[Des]

This issue just occurred on May 2/23.  A friend who uses gmail and regularly emails me all of a sudden received the message that sympatico emails have no encryption and gmail would not send the email.  Yet he was able to send it through yahoo and I as the sympatico holder am receiving emails from other holders.  My question is - Is this a Bell sympatico  problem or a gmail problem and how to resolve this.

[CD_YOW]

I am experiencing what appears to be the same issue. Since May 2/23, gmail messages are not being received in my sympatico account while all email from other domains continue to be received without issue. The senders of the gmail messages to me have noted the following error: "Message Blocked. The response from the remote server was: 554 Access Denied"

This does seem to be a Bell sympatico issue or change that may be blocking all messages from gmail accounts. Hopefully, a resolution can be found soon.

[gesperli]

My husband's email settings change every once in a while and gmail.com is in the blocked senders list. Why is this happening?

[proscroby]

an encrypted connection to your mail server is not available

[BellAntgio]

Hi there @proscroby 
Thank you for your post and welcome to the Community.
Are you able to share some further details so the Community can better assist?

• What server you are referring to?
• Are you receiving any type of error message?
• How are you accessing your Bell email?
• What device are you using and have you tried using another device?

Looking forward to hearing back

[BellNick]

Hi there @gesperli 
Thank you for your post and welcome to the Community.
Does your husband ever mark or report certain emails as spam or block certain Gmail domains? Sometimes doing enough of this will cause these domains to be blocked. 
Looking forward to hearing back.