Bell

DMot · ‎01-17-2023

Has anyone connected directly to their router with an SFP and PPPoE or another method? I'm looking for the right 10Gig SFP, but I'm not sure what one to get

I have a Ubiquitiy UDM SE gateway/router. Currently I have a 10 Gig SFP+ to RG45 with a patch between it and the HH4K's 10G RJ45 port. I'd like to eliminate the HH4K and go direct if possible.

thanks.

ZaneP · ‎01-18-2023

Hi @DMot

It's very difficult, if not impossible to eliminate/completely bypass the HH4K. The ONT is soldered into the board. (unlike the HH3K).

You can also search this topic on Reddit's Bell sub. r/bell

Cheers,

ZaneP

I am a Community All-Star and customer. I'm here to help by sharing my knowledge and experience. My views on Bell and the Community Forum are my own and not the views of Bell or any of its affiliates.

View reply in original post

LikesToys · ‎04-10-2025

Article without screens:

April 2025 - Version 1

For those dealing with the Bell Giga Hub in 2025 - be aware that Bell only supports DMZ in Ontario. PPPoE has been removed from the firmware. There are many out of date discussions regarding double NAT, PPPoE and DMZ. This paper discusses the remaining options as of April 2025.

Depending on your needs, the best option (easy and faster speeds) may be to configure the UDM and attach the GH to the 10Gps port and live with double NAT. This may produced the best speed. If you can’t live with double NAT then read on.

You should be aware that if you turn on DMZ with the GH 2.13 firmware, Ubiqiti Gateways don’t provide Internet access without a Routing settings adjustment (described below).

My Current Hardware

Bell Giga Hub - Firmware 2.13 - 3Gbps, Public IP Address (not a paid static address)

UDM-SE - Network 9.0.114 - Zone Firewall Polices

Note: as various IP addresses will change as you make settings changes you should be able to reach your equipment via the following IP addresses during and after implementation:

Bell GH: 192.168.x.1 where x is the first available VLAN ID not in use on the UDM. In my case VLAN 2 was not being used so my GH was 192.168.2.1
UDM-SW: 192.168.1.1

Problems: Bell’s Implementation of the Giga Hub (GH) does not support Bridge Mode (corporate greed - surely not) nor do they support PPPoE therefore in order to avoid double NAT the only choice I am aware of is DMZ. Some services that I wish to use such as Wiregard VPN or Roon ARC do not work due to lack of Public IP address and double NAT so that left me with only DMZ.

Solution: Use DMZ in conjunction with Advanced DMZ (ADMZ). ADMZ causes the GH to send the current public IP address to the UDM for it to use as the WAN IP. The GH does this by using the MAC address of the UDM’s WAN port so this will have to be established first. A Routing change is also required on the UDM.

Step 1 - Connections: Using DMZ and ADMZ, the GH passes the public IP address using the MAC address of the UDM-SE WAN Port. If this is not a new install, simply pluggin the GH into the UDM, the UDM will likely show this connection as WAN2 and insist when you pull out your old ISP wire you just failed over from WAN1 (your old modem). You may need to turn off WAN1 and redefine the GH port as WAN1 to get rid of this failover message. Fixing the port speeds and definitions before proceeding is important as the WAN1 MAC address will be used in subsequent steps.

In my case, I move from Cogeco 1Gbps using UDM ethernet port 9 to a Bell 3Gbps using UDM SPF+ port 10. I also need to adjust the speeds of the ports and set up Port 10 as the primary WAN port. Temporarily turning off port 9 allowed me to make the settings changes on the UDM Ports screen assigning WAN to port 10 (Blue Cat6E) and WAN2 to port 9.

I assigned WAN2 port 9 to be used as a poor mans WAN failover using an iPhone. I will make a separate posting regarding using a iPhone with power from a UPS for the entire house WAN backup.

Note: I am sticking to Ubiquiti SPF+ equipment as cheaper alternatives stated they worked with Ubiquiti but did not for me.

Step 2 - Routing: As mentioned UNIFI does not work with ADMZ turned on until a minor Routing change is made. I don’t think it matters what you do first but basically the UDM and the GH need to both be changed and during the process UNFI will not provide internet access. I would use the local IP addresses I noted at the beginning of this article.

Add the following Static Routes to the UDM which assigns traffic back the the WAN port:

Step 3: Determine WAN MAC address:

On the UDM: Select UniFi Devices (on the far left) > select the UDM > Overview (blue icon below) and scroll down to WAN1 and take note of the IP and MAC address. Note this WAN1 MAC address must be to configure the GH, not the UDM’s MAC address. Scroll down!

Step 4: On the GH - (192.168.x.1) Select Advanced > turn on DMZ.

Scroll though the list of MAC addresses or manually add the MAC address - it should populate in the Active Device.

Turn on Advanced DMZ - take note of your Public IP Address. If all goes well it will populate into the UDM.

Save the settings.

Step5: Restart the UDM.

Step6: Testing

Settings>Internet. When the UDM reboots the IP address of the WAN should be your public address and you should have browser internet access.

i

View reply in original post

ZaneP · ‎01-18-2023

Hi @DMot

It's very difficult, if not impossible to eliminate/completely bypass the HH4K. The ONT is soldered into the board. (unlike the HH3K).

You can also search this topic on Reddit's Bell sub. r/bell

Cheers,

ZaneP

I am a Community All-Star and customer. I'm here to help by sharing my knowledge and experience. My views on Bell and the Community Forum are my own and not the views of Bell or any of its affiliates.

DMot · ‎01-18-2023

thanks @ZaneP - I'll check it out -- I appreciate a challenge!

ZaneP · ‎01-18-2023

How will you use this in place of the modem's bolted-on ONT/ONU? I think there's a MAC address problem you'd have to solve, given that the modem's MAC addy is registered on Bell's network.

Anyway, this is not really in my wheelhouse, and maybe others here will add to this conversation. I've seen this option discussed on the DSLR Bell forum. I suggest you get onto one of the threads there.

Keep us posted.

I am a Community All-Star and customer. I'm here to help by sharing my knowledge and experience. My views on Bell and the Community Forum are my own and not the views of Bell or any of its affiliates.

DMot · ‎01-18-2023

Was planning to clone the modem's OTN MAC address. Hopefully I'm not the first here! 🙂

DMot · ‎01-21-2023

After turning on ADMZ using the 10Gbps port on the Giga hub to a 10G SFP on a UDM Pro, I get an address, add the static route (because Giga Hub doesn't provide gateway/mask correctly by DCHP) -- now I see high latency and packet loss on the UDM. When I turn off DMZ and double NAT I don't get this.

MTU is default (1500) -- anyone else see this?

Green after chasing back to double NAT.

BellPatricia · ‎01-23-2023

Hey there @DMot, thanks for your post.

We'd like to dig into this a bit deeper and have sent you a private message. Please check your Messages within your profile avatar in the top right corner.

Unsure how to check or send a private message? See How to send a private message

- Patricia

Flywheel · ‎01-24-2023

I believe it's not possible with the Gigahub (soldered on). I have a UDMp (Not SE) running 1.x (I haven't upgraded to 2.x).

I ended up using a MikroTik S+Rj10 connected to the SFP port and a Cat 6 cable to the Gigahub's 10GbE port. Works without issues (autonegotiates). From my experience, one will need to re-start the UDM once it's all hooked up.

I tried PPOE pass-through form the UDMp and from my understanding PPOE is broken on the Gigahub 1.14 firmware. There is a new firmware 1.15 that you need to request via the forums to be pushed to you. ADMZ setup is not without issue and I experienced the same issue as you - lag spikes initially when I tried it. After a couple reboots and attempts to troubleshoot it seems to have "fixed" itself. I no longer get any significant lag spikes using ADMZ. There are occasional spikes but I got that even when I was on a competitor's copper service.

Below is when I had massive lag spikes. You can see when I had copper service (I had a problem initially with getting an IP but eventually the UDMp found it). The left side is copper service and the massive lag spikes are when I initially switched to Bell.

Just to confirm, I added the static route: 0.0.0.0/1 with a distance of 1 to the WAN. I did not modify the MTU.

DMot · ‎01-28-2023

@Flywheel thank you for taking the time to reply with all the details. I'm still seeing the exact same issues with ADMZ. With it disabled, the connection is clean and fast. I've tried rebooting both the UDM and the Gigahub multiple times.

I'll keep reading and testing. I've also reported this to @BellPatricia who has been helping as well. It sounds like some kind of compatibility issue between the UDM and the Gigahub.

@BellPatricia also helped me with the PPPoE bug and firmware upgrade but I can't get PPPoE to work on my UDM.

Thanks everyone!

DMot · ‎01-28-2023

Last night - Double NAT (clean) and switched to ADMZ for overnight testing -- you can see the latency/issues. I've not switched back to double nat for now.

rainfactor · ‎01-31-2023

There are 2 things at play here:

1.Bell’s hub lacks a true bridge mode which one would need in order to use his own equipment

2.Ubiquity Ppoe has been broken for the longest time and it is only recently they fixed it (officially)My guess is that is not fully fixed (just a guess)

All of these make quite difficult for one to try connecting their (potentially) better 3rd party routers, including Unify’s

The solutions that seem to be working (more or less) imply either PPPOE passthrough which is really not a true passthrough, and take a hit on the speed, or the ADMZ solutions which seems to be introducing lag and latency.Your mileage may vary with either of these solutions.

Since the H4000 seems to be working well (apparenty) for the majority of Bell’s customers, there is no interest in supporting the “fringe” users who would want to use their own solutions for which they have spent hundreds of $

All this to say unless Bell will roll out the bridge mode feature(I wouldn’t hold my breath) you are to try the workarounds above and scour various forums (DSLR would be a good start) to get your UDM going at an acceptable speed.

john_ · ‎03-23-2023

I've been experiencing the same lag spikes ever since getting the Gigahub. @BellPatricia got my firmware updated so I was able to establish a PPPoE session from my UDM Pro when I first got the new modem, but the latency spikes are really bad. I'm on 1.5Gbps and the WAN is GPON.

Before the Gigahub I had Small Business service, and connected the UDM Pro to the Nokia ONT directly, establishing a PPPoE session with VLAN tag 35. I had this setup for years, with zero lag spikes. Since this is the same location/fiber/router and cables, and the only thing has changed is the Bell provided equipment (Gigahub), there for sure must still be a bug or two laying around in the firmware.

@BellPatricia is there anything I can provide to help troubleshoot this? Could I ask for a new modem with the hope of that fixing it?

I've tried many modem reboots, ADMZ vs PPPoE, new ethernet cables, trying the 10GBe port or a 1GBe port - all without difference in the lag spikes. I do need to be doing something on the network (downloading for example) to get it to spike up, but my router keeps reporting high spikes. I can ping google.ca many times and see it go 5, 5, 5, 200, 5, 5, 5, 230ms etc.

BellPatricia · ‎03-27-2023

Hi there @john_, thank you very much for reaching out to the Bell Community.

Are you experiencing these lag spikes at a certain time of day/night, or when you are doing something specific on the internet (gaming, streaming, browsing)?

If you connect your devices directly to the Gigahub do you still notice any lag spikes?

We also invite you to share a screenshot of your most recent Ping test results (be sure to hide any personal information) so the Community can check it out.

- Patricia

john_ · ‎03-31-2023

Hi @BellPatricia ; Thank you for the response.

The lag honestly seems random. Today's pattern is different than yesterdays for example. But today, it seems to be during more typical 'peak' internet times. Currently, there's a music and a netflix stream running, and here's what things look like.

The first screenshot here is my UniFi Router - which as I mentioned above was on the Nokia ONT with Small Business' service for almost two years, and never did I even see yellow in latency at the same location as I am now. The only thing that has changed is residential and the Gigahub, and of course the PPPoE credentials.

So you can see two hours ago my average latency (set to google.ca) was 102ms.

I also have moved my Desktop to being plugged directly to the Gigahub, to respond to your question above. It has unfortunately not changed anything. I randomly did a ping to google.ca just now, and you can see the very good ping times, then a number of seconds into it, it spikes up. It will then return to normal. I can leave this running and it goes up and down (spikes) like this constantly:

I notice these spikes/lags in video chats during the day for work, and in voice chats in the evening. These are on hard wired devices (wi-fi is not a factor, which I know for sure can typically be).

I also did a ping to forum.bell.ca, with similar results, can you can see packet loss too:

Flywheel · ‎04-02-2023

Just as a follow-up towards the end of Feb 2023, I upgraded UnifiOS to 2.x and started noticing lag spikes (several times a day not regular intervals). Since I had no issues with ADMZ, I attributed this to UnifiOS 2.x. I did a couple updates within 2.x hoping that with each update it would "fix" the issue but it seemed that it just got progressively worse. The subsequent update, I got more often lag spikes and I also started getting packet loss (several times a day).

As a last ditch, I enabled "Early Access" firmware updates for UnifiOS to get my UDM Pro to 3.x and while the lag spikes and packet loss "seemed" to improve it was still an issue.

I then decided to do PPoE pass-through given I had updated the UDM Pro firmware. Recall that previously I tried PPoE pass-through but I was only able to resolve approx 50% of the websites I visited. I got an external IP address and the symptoms I was getting seemed to be related to a DNS issue.

When I tried to do PPoE pass-through on UnifiOS 3.x I got the same symptoms. I was using 8.8.8.8 and 1.1.1.1 for the DNS severs and it made no sense in that I was not able to visit all the websites I tested with (approx 50%).

After playing around with a lot of settings I found out that it's related to PPoE and the MTU settings on the UDM Pro. all PPoE connections tag on an "overhead" to the MTU which potentially puts it over the 1500 and therefore is rejected. The solution is to set the MTU to 1452 (which includes the overhead requirements).

Finding this within UnifiOS is difficult. It is not where you would expect it to be. It's under the Unifi Devices --> UDM Pro --> Settings --> MSS Clamping

Just thought I would post this as it took me half a day of trying different things until I found out that it works.

The end result is that I have a UDM Pro on 3.x running PPoE pass-through. My speed is 100% of what is advertised by Bell and I do not have the lag spikes or packet loss anymore. I have 1.5 gbps down/1gbps up service.

Bell

Connecting Bell fibre directly to UDM SE with SFP+ and PPPoE

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