Pppoe passthrough is now broken on Open BSD router

[doverosx]

I’m in Barrhaven on Bell Fibe and it’s been great, using pppoe passthrough (OpenBSD router) with no issues for a while now.

This weekend, I’ve been getting disconnects, crazy high pings and more. Anyone else have problems?

I’ll be *trying* a direct connection to the modem in a bit.

 Using just the modem seems to have resolved the issue so Bell broke something nicely.

[doverosx]

I would opt for a business package if it meant this issue would be resolved; but it won’t be resolved. Others have ponied up and have the same issue as we are having. 

The worst part is that the GigaHub is actually not sufficient for what I would call heavier than average but still very light use. My CPU on the GH is pegged at 80% doing very basic work up/down servers at my colocation. 

I’ve heard others went with a reseller that used a different modem and the modem with the other ISP, worked fine with no PPPoE issues.

 I haven’t heard anything back from Bell order than “we’re looking into it.”

[Quack]

Sure users have options but the issue is that none of the options works reliably. Update are auto-installed on all our router and they break PPPoE passthrough or ADMZ without notice. We are then stuck with a half working solution and radio silence from Bell for months when asking when it will be fixed.
Options that don't work reliably are not options.

[dks]

I have grave doubts it will be changed. That's my own opinion, based on observing this issue for a long time. Bell has never had PPPoE passthrough and I doubt they ever will. There was a long technical explanation on Reddit outlining the difference between cable and fibre and because of the technical differences, passthrough will never be implemented. 

[dks]

The high CPU use on the modem is a known issue and is being worked on. I have no idea when or if any firmware fix will be released. 

[Vanadiel]

It's possible, just not easily with PPPOE. Pending on where you live in Canada you can get Bell Aliant, and they have fiber with DHCP which makes things like passthrough a lot easier since it's not a Point to Point connection.

My understanding is PPPOE is a "leftover" from the DSL area.

[Hugh]

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@dks wrote:

I have grave doubts it will be changed. That's my own opinion, based on observing this issue for a long time. Bell has never had PPPoE passthrough and I doubt they ever will. There was a long technical explanation on Reddit outlining the difference between cable and fibre and because of the technical differences, passthrough will never be implemented. 

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I'm confused.  My Bell Fibe FTTH has PPPoE pass-through.  That's all I use.

Are we each talking about different Bell offerings?  I know Bell Aliant is different from Bell.

I will say that my connection through PPPoE pass-through isn't as reliable as I'd like.

[dks]

Bell Aliant uses DHCP.  And yes, PPPoE is a leftover from DSL. 

[DeafBlindMonkey]

I have been using my Asus ROG AC-2900 Gaming router, on one of the 1 gigabit port using pppoe for 2 years or so now and I have never encountered a problem. I have attached a screenshot showing my WAN pppoe config.

[Bridge Mode]

I dont see VLAN 35 config in your WAN, so I guess you just double NATing which is the same as everyone else mentioned, which means during higher utilization of the network Giga Hub will be jam packed.

[Bridge Mode]

My other concern with having Giga Hub in the middle and double NATing or even ADMZ is security, since what get hit first (or still exposed with its own public IP) is Giga Hub and not my firewall, in case of modem takeover I may get into MiTM (man-in-the-middle) without even noticing, up until next firmware update…

How Bell going to address that?!

[Vanadiel]

That is one of the advantages of using PPPOE. Your modem is establishing a Point to Point connection to a PPPOE server. 

It's a tunneling protocol and while not the same an a VPN, it does prevent any outsider from connecting to your modem as the PPPOE server is the point of internet connectivity, not your modem.

Your modem just functions as a device for your clients to access the internet through the PPPOE server. (BRAS)

If you do a traceroute from one of your clients you will see your external IP, followed by I believe it's a 10.x.x.x address that is not routable from the internet. That 10.x.x.x is the PPPOE server. Unless someone compromises the PPPOE server there's no way to get access to your modem from the internet as it's not exposed to the internet and not routable from the internet.

They are always directly communicating with the PPPOE server, not your modem.

In a way, your modem WAN is part of the Bell LAN. 

[Vanadiel]

VLAN 35 for internet is only needed if you don't use a home hub and instead use a GPON directly.

The passthrough or ADMZ mode still has the modem provide functionality like VLAN and some other things. The only true bypass is a GPON. (or XPON as I believe the 8/8 and maybe even 3/3 uses XPON).

[Hugh]

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@Vanadiel wrote:

VLAN 35 for internet is only needed if you don't use a home hub and instead use a GPON directly.

The passthrough or ADMZ mode still has the modem provide functionality like VLAN and some other things. The only true bypass is a GPON. (or XPON as I believe the 8/8 and maybe even 3/3 uses XPON).

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Right.  I use a GigaHub.  My router uses PPPoE pass-through.  It is connected to the 10G (?) port.  There is a separate port for a phone line and 4(?) gigabit ports that remain behind NAT.  Their public/routable IP address is different from that of the public PPPoE connection.  I don't remember which port the Fibe TV STB is connected to: either one of the 4 ports or a dedicated port on the GH.

[DeafBlindMonkey]

The vlan id is in a different setting, I'm not using the SFP without the gigahub so the VLAN id is not required. It's still a public ip with pppoe, I think bell allows about 5 logins with pppoe, my gigahub never goes to 100% usage, it's negligible usage 2-4% load under 3 gigabit internet as, I only use my Gaming PC under the 10 gigabit port also doing pppoe, there's no double NAT

Trace route.

tracert 8.8.8.8

Tracing route to dns.google [8.8.8.8]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms GT-AC2900-6020 [192.168.50.1]
2 35 ms 1 ms 1 ms 142.124.37.102
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 4 ms 3 ms 3 ms 64.230.59.188
6 3 ms 3 ms 3 ms 142.124.125.82
7 2 ms 1 ms 3 ms 64.230.97.147
8 2 ms 2 ms 2 ms google_bx3-torontoxn.net.bell.ca [184.150.181.147]
9 3 ms 2 ms 2 ms 192.178.98.195
10 2 ms 2 ms 2 ms 142.251.70.13
11 3 ms 3 ms 3 ms dns.google [8.8.8.8]

Trace complete.

[Vanadiel]

The IP address is public, but always has to go through the PPPOE server you established the PPPOE session with.

If you use pass-through, your device will establish a direct PPPOE link with the PPPOE server. It will tunnel through and over your modem, if you want to look at it this way.