Double NAT on Home Hub 4000 with an existing home LAN

[WalterG]

Is there an actual or potential double NAT issue with connecting my existing router to the 4000?  Are there settings on the 4000 to avoid this while retaining TV and phone connections?

I intend to use my existing wifi setup on my LAN.  Can I switch off the 4000 transmitter?

*Updated title & added Labels

[networkadminwanabe]

I followed the above instructions to connect my Ubiquiti EdgeOS router and while the internet worked fine, the TVs stopped working. I rebooted them hoping that they would reconnect but they would not. So I turned the HH4K DHCP back on and the TVs reconnected with no impact on the internet connection. I'm not sure if this is the correct configuration but it's working.

If there is a way to connect the TVs without the DHCP let me know.

[dks]

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@networkadminwanabe wrote:

I followed the above instructions to connect my Ubiquiti EdgeOS router and while the internet worked fine, the TVs stopped working. I rebooted them hoping that they would reconnect but they would not. So I turned the HH4K DHCP back on and the TVs reconnected with no impact on the internet connection. I'm not sure if this is the correct configuration but it's working.

If there is a way to connect the TVs without the DHCP let me know.

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Is it possible the TV's are connecting wirelessly?

[FumbleJ]

Here are the potential pitfalls and why some people NEED to be able to have advanced features on the Bell (Sagecom) modems enabled.

1. Some of us do not want TV from Bell or any other provider. So keeping the WIFI for TV enabled despite disabling HH Wifi causes some interference and potential range issues.
2. Some of us do want a faster router to take advantage of local LAN at >1Gbps. The CPU on Sagecom router handling SFP+, Routing, Switching AND wifi gets bogged down. We need to be able to route from an upstream router to leave SFP job to the HHx000
3. 4 1Gbps ETH ports on a device is not sufficient or ports are not fast enough for local LAN for some people. Switching via a multi-port multi-speed switch is desirable. Some also need POE which adds to the issue on the HHx000
4. Despite having WIFI6e, the HH4000 needs to be in an area with high visibility to provide proper WIFI. Sometimes (read most times) this is not possible nor desirable. Mesh WIFI in my experience has been poor so again, some of us need to rely on separate AP to cover WIFI properly. This compounds the switching problem, the port availability problem and the load on HHx000 problem. Also, getting a POE injection to power an external AP if you rely on the HHx000 means you will have one more device to tangle with.
5. SFP+ being hardwired in the HH4000 is a seriously bad idea. I understand why Bell asks Sagecom to do this for them but... there are 0 advantages for the end user, only disadvantages. Sometimes, all we need is to get the fiber IN and pay the bill. We don't really need tech services unless the fiber goes down.
6. All routers/modems have a bridge mode. This is simply obfuscated in the custom firmware Sagecom makes for Bell. True bridge mode CAN be enabled on the HH4000 but it is not exposed at Bell's requirement. to give you an idea, you CAN get the same Fibe service backend via EBOX for example without the HHx000. They provide a Nokia ONT and a router (that you can elect not to use) and route + connect through a router box like OPNSense or PfSense. Yeah, if a client cannot figure it out on how to configure this kind of setup, Bell Support will not be able to help... but that's the price some of us are able to pay. Support for customers that do not know what to do or how to do it should be RESET MODEM SETTINGS and that's it.

So, @BellDRock if you want to bring some comments back up, that would be a "power user" wishlist. Bell can both enable ease of use to neophytes and non-tech people but can also enable powerful features for more serious and adventurous users. All I want to do is secure my network, block ads and telemetry, have the fastest ping possible and the best up/down bandwidth I pay for. All of this without restricting my LAN to 1Gbps or WIFI speeds or possibility to LAGG connections internally. See why we ask for these?

Home networks are more and more looking like business networks with more limited number of users and required uptime. But we still need to be able to give ourselves some way to protect our personal data AND corporate accesses. 

Care to look at what you offer and help your clients?

[FumbleJ]

I'm a regular lurker on the DSLReport website (since 1999 if my memory serves me well). My goal is to try and point Bell in the right direction 🙂 ... I know I will have a sympathetic ear on DSLReports... However this will not move the needle.

Advanced features are available on the sagecom modems but are hidden. If Bell just has a remote trigger to enable the features BUT no support unless you get the 6$/month service pack, I would be quite content... not that I would necessarily need the support but it would be nice if I ever need it to activate it.... 

There's always two ways to do business... 

1. Lock every door and throw away the key, put what you have outside and sell that
2. Open the door, show what is available and serve what is needed. It may not be on the shelf when someone is in the store but.. it is available in the backstore for "connaisseurs"

[dks]

If you are a lurker on DSLR, you already know the answer to your wish list. I have been there since 2000. Bell is in business. They will not "move the needle" for a small number of enthusiasts, as it is not good business and creates more support issues. The Bell Direct forum, where you have direct access to Bell technicians, is the best we will get. Bell, like all other ISP's, wants a standard platform that can be easily supported for 99% of the population. Even the standard platform can have complex issues. Like it or not, that's reality.   

[FumbleJ]

I hear ya and agree... however, there is no harm in "reminding" Bell of that wish list. At some point it may happen (even if it is a hidden set of features that can only be enabled by Bell and after signing an oath with the blood  sacrifice of 3 goats that this will not be supported by them) 😁. I still think the Fibe TV Wifi is a no-brainer though....

[dks]

Three goats aren't enough. You might have to sign over your RRSP. 😉 

[philipGood]

I'm not sure if bumping this post will have any affect, but I am also looking for these features. I just want bell to provide the modem, or failing that, an ONT. I can (and wish to) take care of the rest. If there isa. way of putting the HH4000 into bridge mode, please do share. Am I understanding correctly that it is available but hidden?

[Vanadiel]

Bridge mode is not available, and it's not a hidden setting.

Best is Advanced DMZ, but it has it's own issues.

In my opinion, it's a better option to let the HH process the PPPOE packets, and use double NAT as opposed to use your own equipment to process PPPOE packets. Equipment that is efficient at processing PPPOE packets is far from common, and most equipment is not capable to process them past 1 gigabit speeds.

And I am not even mentioning the MTU difference between Ethernet and PPPOE packets, which in itself requires more processing.

The only way using your own equipment becomes more interesting is if Bell would drop PPPOE and switch to DHCP. I am thinking this is something they eventually will have to do due to the overhead of PPPOE and gigabit connections.

[BellNick]

Hi there @philipGood 
Thank you for your post and welcome to the Community.
We'd recommend checking out another ongoing thread called Using PPPoE and DMZ / Advanced DMZ for 'Bridge Mode' use of 3rd Party router on the HH4000as it may be of some further assistance to you.
If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact the Community.

[philipGood]

@BellNick thanks. I've moved over to that post. 

Best,