Using PPPoE and DMZ / Advanced DMZ for 'Bridge Mode' use of 3rd Party router on the HH4000 & Giga Hub

[navderek]

It would be great if Bell could confirm if they are going to update the FW on the HH4000 to enable a true bridge mode setup...also to stop the Wifi from automatically re-enabling itself anytime the HH4000 reboots itself. These are two MAJOR issues right now with the HH4000 and posted about on many forums (not just here).

It would be great if someone from Bell could chime in and let the community know if it is actually going to address these issues or not? If not, please explain why and please do not point to advanced DMZ as a solution because that doesn't actually work very well and severely impacts the performance on the Google Mesh (or any other pre-existing mesh setup). This is also discussed on many forums both on this one and externally by your customers.

We do realize the HH4000 is relatively new so there can be some improvements. We, as a community, just want to know if Bell plans to make those improvements or not.

Thanks,

-Derek

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❗AI Summary: 

When attempting to use a third-party router, customers frequently encounter networking challenges due to the absence of a true 'bridge mode'. This limitation has led to a variety of solutions involving PPPoE and the Advanced DMZ feature to avoid issues like double NAT; where two devices on the network are performing Network Address Translation (NAT). Double NAT can lead to problems with online gaming, port forwarding, and other applications that require a direct connection to the internet.

Some complications you may experience:

• Wi-Fi auto re-enabling: Even when disabled, the Bell Home Hub's Wi-Fi can turn back on after a reboot.
• Advanced DMZ limitations: Advanced DMZ can be unreliable, especially with third party mesh systems. PPPoE is preferred by users in this scenario.
• IP lease and connectivity drops: Devices lose connection when the public IP changes, requiring manual reconfiguration.
• Performance degradation: Speeds, especially download speeds can drop over time. A reboot or modem reset will be needed to restore.
• No static IPs: IP changes cause disruptions. Using DDNS can be considered.

In response, Bell Community users have detailed two primary methods to approximate a bridge mode: PPPoE passthrough and the use of the Advanced DMZ feature.

User-Shared Solutions:

PPPoE Passthrough: Often described as more stable and straightforward; it involves configuring the third-party router to establish the PPPoE connection directly with Bell. This effectively bypasses the Bell Home Hub 4000, Giga Hub and Giga Hub 2.0's routing functions, providing the third-party router with its own public IP address. To do this, users typically need to obtain their "b1" username and password from Bell. While stable, a significant drawback of this method is a potential reduction in internet speeds, particularly on plans faster than 500 Mbps, as many consumer routers struggle with the overhead of PPPoE.

Advanced DMZ: This method involves placing the third-party router in the modem's "Advanced Demilitarized Zone." This exposes the third-party router directly to the internet, which can result in higher performance. However, this solution is often reported to be less stable. For instance, rebooting your router might necessitate a subsequent reboot of your Giga Hub/Giga Hub 2.0 to restore the internet connection. Some have also reported experiencing lag spikes with this configuration. When using Advanced DMZ, it is advised to leave the login information on the third-party router blank, as entering PPPoE credentials can cause the connection to fail.

Configuration Tips from the Bell Community:

• When setting up either method, it's recommended to disable the Wi-Fi on the Bell Giga Hub/Giga Hub 2.0 to prevent interference.
• For PPPoE passthrough, connecting the WAN port of the third-party router to any LAN port on the Bell hub and configuring the router with your b1 credentials is the general procedure.
• For Advanced DMZ, users need to enable the feature in the Giga Hub/Giga Hub 2.0's settings and assign their third-party router to it. It's also highly recommended to not plug other devices directly into the Bell hub for security reasons when using Advanced DMZ.

Ultimately, the choice between PPPoE passthrough and Advanced DMZ depends on the user's priorities. If stability and ease of setup are paramount, PPPoE passthrough is often the recommended choice. For those who prioritize performance and are willing to troubleshoot potential instabilities, Advanced DMZ may be the preferred option.

[Vanadiel]

I am moving away from UB products. I like their ideas, but they change their eco systems too much and create all kinds of new systems that are not compatible with each other.

A 48 port Edge switch not being compatible control wise with the UDM Pro SE ecosystem because it runs a different OS is just not nice. They could easily fix that by truly unifying their products. Instead they keep introducing new subsets, like the max and want you to upgrade all your equipment every so often.

[Stickyfingers]

Definitely agree. I’m married to this system. I like it. Although not ideal with double nat, I can deal with it. Bell also plays a role in this. All European country isp’s can provide a static IP for home users and allow you to source your own router. This is how it should be. I’m sure they can keep the HH or something similar for people that want TV. 

[DSLEnthusiast]

Today I had my old Bell DSL Internet upgraded to the new Fibe network and subscribed to the Fibe50 plan and had the GigaHub modem installed. Although I am able to connect my MacBook Pro laptop to the GigaHub's LAN ethernet port and get online with a public IP address on my laptop, I would also like to be able to connect through a PPPoE connection on my same laptop in order to get a different IP address every time I use the Internet. There are websites where I have multiple accounts that will not work with the same IP address on each of the different accounts, meaning I cannot use the sites I am a member of anymore, because I need different IP addresses every time I login to the different accounts on the same site. Using the same IP address on the same sites ends up blocking my access to those sites, or, worse, has my accounts deleted altogether since I need a unique IP to login to them. When I had my old DSL service using the Home Hub 2000, I was easily able to connect through PPPoE and receive different IP addresses every time I connected through the PPPoE connections. I would just disconnect from one PPPoE connection, then reconnect moments later and receive a different public IP address. Now with the GigaHub, I can't do that anymore. I have tried the bypasses and passthroughs with the DMZ features, but that did nothing. I called Bell tech support and they told me the only way to use PPPoE the way I was using it on my Home Hub 2000 is to bring my GigaHub modem to a Bell store and exchange it for a GigaHub that has firmware version 1.15.1 as that is the only version of the firmware that supports PPPoE connections on the GigaHub. My concerns is, if I do exchange the GigaHub I have now for a GigaHub with the 1.15.1 firmware, what's to stop the GigaHub from automatically updating to the newest version of the firmware, putting me back in the same situation as I am now? My current GigaHub is using firmware version 1.19.6, so what happens if I get the GigaHub with the 1.15.1 firmware and it automatically updates to a version that is not 1.15.1. I was told my tech support that any other version of the firmware will not support PPPoE. What can I do to get around this nonsense when the Home Hub 2000 never caused any issues? I'm regretting upgrading to the Fibe network, but Bell forced me to switch to Fibe because they said my home phone service would be discontinued on the old copper lines, meaning I would have lost my access to the Internet also if I stayed on the copper lines. How can I get my HomeHub to connect via PPPoE on my MacBook Pro?

[wjw3723]

My understanding is that 5689E is already in bridge mode. All you need to do is to disable the wifi on the box, then enter your b1 user name and password in your own router's PPPOE set up. You will get your own external IP address. No need to go through aDMZ settings. I was able to do this to use my own Asus Wifi Mesh. 

[dks]

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@wjw3723 wrote:

My understanding is that 5689E is already in bridge mode. All you need to do is to disable the wifi on the box, then enter your b1 user name and password in your own router's PPPOE set up. You will get your own external IP address. No need to go through aDMZ settings. I was able to do this to use my own Asus Wifi Mesh. 

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If you click on the green checkmark in the first forum post what says "Go to helpful replies", it will take you to the correct steps to add a third party router to your Giga Hub. The Giga Hub does not have a true bridge mode but does allow router pass through. 

[dks]

I think understand what you are trying to do, but what you want to do is likely no longer possible. If a web site demands a different IP for each login, then it is definitely no longer possible. I can think of gaming sites, for example, where multiple account logins at the same time are a violation of the terms of service, so such logins are automatically terminated or deleted, as you have found. That's why they require a different IP for each login. It's a security and anti-cheat issue for them. 

I can't think of a direct solution to your question either, as you are dealing with the technical realities of the internet. The HH2000 can not be connected to fibre, as you have it installed, because they use different connection protocols. The HH2000 connected to fibre would require a media converter, which Bell will no longer install, as the underlying technology is different (GPON vs. XPON).  The Giga Hub also uses a direct to fibre connection and the Giga Hub is registered to that connection. 

That's probably not what you wanted to hear, but it may help you to understand some things. 

BTW, posing in all Bold makes text hard to read. Thanks for your consideration. 

[DSLEnthusiast]

I have found a way to get different IP addresses from my GigaHub modem, although it is not a completely ideal situation since I also have home phone service through my GigaHub, but all I need to do is unplug the GigaHub from it's power supply, wait 10-15 minutes, then plug the GigaHub back in and I get a new IP address every time. However, since I have multiple accounts on the same site and each account needs its own IP address, having to unplug my GigaHub and plug it back every time I go onto the website is not ideal, because I don't have my home phone service for the 10-15 minutes that the modem is unplugged, however, it is the only way I can keep using the website where I have multiple paid memberships that require the different IP address for every login. It's not the best of workarounds, but it has been working for me to use my website accounts, although I have had some people tell me that they can't get through to me over my home phone line when my GigaHub is unplugged, so that is something I will have to explain to those trying to call me during those modem unplug times.

[wjw3723]

I did not follow the "helpful replies", but still made it work by simply configure PPPOE on my router. I got external IP for my router and was able to connect to my NAS and VM from outside. That's all I need. 

[Vanadiel]

Just make sure those devices are secured if they are exposed to the internet.

[wjw3723]

Yes. I have Asus ZenWifi AX mesh with firewalls configured. Only a few ports open for services like my NAS.

[Smitty]

I talked with a Bell Technician on our street a few weeks ago.  He told me it IS POSSIBLE NOW to put the HH4000 into bridge mode.  He further advised me that putting the HH4000 into bridge mode removes the functionality of Fibe TV.   I would need 2 HH4000s- 1 in bridge mode for my internet connection AND 1 normal config for my Fibe TV functionality.  Thus requiring 2 fibre cables coming into my house.

Q#1 -- Can anyone confirm that yes HH4000 can be put into Bridge Mode?

Q#2 -- Can anyone confirm I would need 2 HH4000 to also have Fibe TV functionality?

Thank you!

[Vanadiel]

News to me, but I doubt a 2 modem solution would be the end result.

[dks]

The HH4000 can be put into bridge more *for business customers only*, not for residential customers, I believe. So the answer for residential customers is no and can't do that. 

[Vanadiel]

I have a HH3000 and completely removed it, only using the GPON in an RB5009. Best bridge mode available.

GPON in the HH4000 is not removable. 

[Smitty]

The tech told me that starting in 2024 they are allowing bridge mode for residential customers.