Using PPPoE and DMZ / Advanced DMZ for 'Bridge Mode' use of 3rd Party router on the HH4000 & Giga Hub

[navderek]

It would be great if Bell could confirm if they are going to update the FW on the HH4000 to enable a true bridge mode setup...also to stop the Wifi from automatically re-enabling itself anytime the HH4000 reboots itself. These are two MAJOR issues right now with the HH4000 and posted about on many forums (not just here).

It would be great if someone from Bell could chime in and let the community know if it is actually going to address these issues or not? If not, please explain why and please do not point to advanced DMZ as a solution because that doesn't actually work very well and severely impacts the performance on the Google Mesh (or any other pre-existing mesh setup). This is also discussed on many forums both on this one and externally by your customers.

We do realize the HH4000 is relatively new so there can be some improvements. We, as a community, just want to know if Bell plans to make those improvements or not.

Thanks,

-Derek

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❗AI Summary: 

When attempting to use a third-party router, customers frequently encounter networking challenges due to the absence of a true 'bridge mode'. This limitation has led to a variety of solutions involving PPPoE and the Advanced DMZ feature to avoid issues like double NAT; where two devices on the network are performing Network Address Translation (NAT). Double NAT can lead to problems with online gaming, port forwarding, and other applications that require a direct connection to the internet.

Some complications you may experience:

• Wi-Fi auto re-enabling: Even when disabled, the Bell Home Hub's Wi-Fi can turn back on after a reboot.
• Advanced DMZ limitations: Advanced DMZ can be unreliable, especially with third party mesh systems. PPPoE is preferred by users in this scenario.
• IP lease and connectivity drops: Devices lose connection when the public IP changes, requiring manual reconfiguration.
• Performance degradation: Speeds, especially download speeds can drop over time. A reboot or modem reset will be needed to restore.
• No static IPs: IP changes cause disruptions. Using DDNS can be considered.

In response, Bell Community users have detailed two primary methods to approximate a bridge mode: PPPoE passthrough and the use of the Advanced DMZ feature.

User-Shared Solutions:

PPPoE Passthrough: Often described as more stable and straightforward; it involves configuring the third-party router to establish the PPPoE connection directly with Bell. This effectively bypasses the Bell Home Hub 4000, Giga Hub and Giga Hub 2.0's routing functions, providing the third-party router with its own public IP address. To do this, users typically need to obtain their "b1" username and password from Bell. While stable, a significant drawback of this method is a potential reduction in internet speeds, particularly on plans faster than 500 Mbps, as many consumer routers struggle with the overhead of PPPoE.

Advanced DMZ: This method involves placing the third-party router in the modem's "Advanced Demilitarized Zone." This exposes the third-party router directly to the internet, which can result in higher performance. However, this solution is often reported to be less stable. For instance, rebooting your router might necessitate a subsequent reboot of your Giga Hub/Giga Hub 2.0 to restore the internet connection. Some have also reported experiencing lag spikes with this configuration. When using Advanced DMZ, it is advised to leave the login information on the third-party router blank, as entering PPPoE credentials can cause the connection to fail.

Configuration Tips from the Bell Community:

• When setting up either method, it's recommended to disable the Wi-Fi on the Bell Giga Hub/Giga Hub 2.0 to prevent interference.
• For PPPoE passthrough, connecting the WAN port of the third-party router to any LAN port on the Bell hub and configuring the router with your b1 credentials is the general procedure.
• For Advanced DMZ, users need to enable the feature in the Giga Hub/Giga Hub 2.0's settings and assign their third-party router to it. It's also highly recommended to not plug other devices directly into the Bell hub for security reasons when using Advanced DMZ.

Ultimately, the choice between PPPoE passthrough and Advanced DMZ depends on the user's priorities. If stability and ease of setup are paramount, PPPoE passthrough is often the recommended choice. For those who prioritize performance and are willing to troubleshoot potential instabilities, Advanced DMZ may be the preferred option.

[Popcorn45]

Just got setup yesterday and I'm looking for this solution too. I've got an Asus mesh system in place already. 

[CuddledCookie]

when will we be able to use true bridge mode like I was able to with Rogers - I would like control over my own network with a solution that is far simpler and just works

if its not going to happen I will be going back to rogers

thank you

[chgrbt]

FYI, for me, to connect my ASUS mesh setup to Bell's HH4000 via PPPoE, I had to change my "b1" password to 8 characters max., the intial "B1"password was longer, and PPPoE login didn't work.

[Popcorn45]

I went through a bit of a learning curve with their modem and called support to get it working again. 

The thing that worked best as advised by the support person was putting the Asus router/mesh in the DMZ, then using the PPPoE provided by the tech in the router. From there all of my already forwarded ports worked and I am still able to retain my down/up speeds.

Haven't had any issues with the network since! A typical bridge mode like my old Rogers modem would have been a lot easier but Rogers doesn't have fibre yet. 

[chgrbt]

Good to hear. I've got PPPoE going with my ASUS mesh and it's in the DMZ. Will watch ASUS system log for any anomalies. Bell's FAQs should include the bit about 6-8 character passwords.

[Justme2024]

If you are connecting your own router (ie Asus) to the Gigahub using PPPOE or ADMZ can you have your FibeTV boxes connected to your own router and have the TV Boxes function or do the have to stay connected directly to the Gigahub? 

[ZaneP]

Hi @Justme2024 

According to a frequent contributor on the Bell forum at DSL Reports, you can configure your own router to have functionality with the TV receivers. 

Is there an IPTV configuration section on the Asus router GUI? Perhaps that's where you would do this.

[Supamav]

Hello,

Bell Fiber was installed about a month ago (Sep 2023).  Have an Asus AX-11000 as my firewall/router. Researching this forum and DSLR prior to installation I did the following for allow for a public IP on my own firewall once installed:

1. Disabled all WIFI on the GH.Nothing but my router is connected to the GH.
2. Set DMZ to ON, turned on Advanced DMZ, entered the MAC of my WAN on my firewall.
3. Worked for a short time.

For maybe a week it worked fine.  After that first week, the headaches began, disconnects constantly, random packet loss.  A reboot of both my router and the GH would work, and if that didn't, turning off ADMZ then re-enabling it would get things going again.  Then in a few days it would happen all over again.

Today however ADMZ just refuses to work at all.  The GH seems to just die every few seconds, dropped packets constantly.  ATM I'm just using the internal DHCP of the GH to get my internet up, and it seems stable that way.  For my needs that just won't work though.  I need that Public IP on my router WAN interface.

Firmware on Asus AX-11000 is current
Firmware on GH is 1.16.5
All Ethernet cables (Cat6) were changed and tested working.
Internal network is rock solid all of my switches and WAPs are up to date and working perfectly.

Is there something I'm missing here?  I have checked every setting, every cable, rebooted every device and still find ADMZ unreliable.  Is it possible to determine if a new GH firmware will fix this?  Any help would be appreciated.  My background is IT so no need to go easy on me!

Would it be to my advantage to use PPPOE from my router instead?  I have seen some say the speed is reduced, although I am not sure why that would be.

Thanks for any help!

[Arnaud]

Got Bell Fibe installed today. The sales rep was 100% sure I could put the modem in bridge mode... He was wrong so I ended on this forum 😀 -  Thank to @Popcorn45 I was able to make it work (I think) but I am not cancelling Rogers just yet. I set up the advanced DMZ with the MAC of my TP-Link Deco router and used the b1 username with PPoE as connection type in the TP Link. I have some errors in the logs, I have to look into that and I have 2 IP addresses, one from the Giga Hub and one from the TP Link, strange.

I was pleasantly surprised that the 2 TV Boxes, connected via Ethernet to a Ethernet switch (connected to my TP Link) are working without any additional setup. I thought I was going to have to set up IPTV or do port forwarding...

Anyone knows if the 2 IP addresses and the errors in the logs are normal? Thank you!

Example of errors:

Mon Oct 2 21:08:50 2023 daemon.notice nrd[24270]: ar_pat_calc_cand_datarate[line 882]: patrate for 1C61B4AC4E45 is 130, txRate: 245.318970

Mon Oct 2 21:08:50 2023 daemon.err nrd[24270]: steeralgFindBestAPCallback: iterate BSS APId 0 ChanId 2 ESSId 0 targetBand(0) != measuredBss->band(1)

Mon Oct 2 21:08:50 2023 daemon.err nrd[24270]: steeralgFindBestAPCallback: iterate BSS APId 1 ChanId 2 ESSId 0 targetBand(0) != measuredBss->band(1)

Mon Oct 2 21:08:51 2023 daemon.notice nrd[24270]: ar_apinfo_collect[line 1107]: AP sync timer expires!

[ZaneP]

Hi @Arnaud 

Glad you got this working, and good to hear that you got the TV receivers working with your router without any configuration.

Some of the messages look wifi related. Did you try to narrow it down by using the "Filter by Functionality" in the system logs?

 For a few reasons I chose not to connect my Asus router the HomeHub, for now. But hopefully others on this forum who use PPPoE and/or DMZ daily will bring their knowledge to this thread. You can also get solid replies if you post to the Bell forum on DSL Reports. There's a lot of threads on the GigaHub including this one that's just started, on DMZ and the GigaHub.

https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r33757019-Aliant-GigaHub-and-Advanced-DMZ-EdgeRouterX-not-getting-I...

Cheers,

ZaneP

I'm not a Bell employee, just a customer

[Arnaud]

Thanks for the quick reply 😀 

I have been on the dslreports forums for the last hour or so.

I still can't figure out if I should do the Advanced DMZ + PPPoE or just the PPPoE? And wondering if it's normal to have 2 external IP addresses. Everything seems to be working so far but want to make the setup is optimized before decide to continue with Bell.

I will likely post on dslreports but if anyone here can help, that would be great!

[ZaneP]

It's unfortunate that Bell didn't configure their HH4000 and GigaHub for true bridge mode. The overall value of end-to-end fiber hopefully convinces you to stay.

I moved to Bell from a cable ISP as soon as its fiber service was available to my home. My service is solid and stable. I've never regretted it.

[Arnaud]

Unfortunately, I cancelled all my Bell services after 5 days. I think the Internet in PPPoE was working OK but I couldn't connect the TV boxes via Ethernet. They need to be direct to the Giga Hub and I would need to change my whole setup. Too bad. With Rogers, the modem in Bridge mode, all the TV boxes connected to my network switches, it works great. Maybe I will start wiring some new cables just for the TV, so eventually I would switch to fiber.

Thanks again!

[Taurus7774]

I read in another thread that bell is pushing a new firmware to the GH, 1.19.XX, my modem is still on 1.16.5, was anyone here able to test PPPoE with the new firmware?

[mkennedy]

@BellPatricia - I got Bell fibreOp today (Giga Hub - firmware version 1.19.5.1) and I want to put my GH in bride mode, which I guess for all intents and purposes is Advanced DMZ in this case since Bell refuses to give us a dedicated bridge mode.

1. I have disabled the on-board wifi on the GH
2. Turned on advanced DMZ and selected the MAC address of my UDM-PRO (Which for some reason seems to be one value off on the MAC address? not sure why that is?).
3. Saved all settings.
4. Restarted the GH twice.
5. Restarted the UDM-PRO twice.

But the WAN ip from the GH is not carrying over to the UDM-PRO which is putting me in a double nat and preventing me from doing some port forwarding.

Can anyone offer some assistance is getting this up and running?
Much appreciated!