Using PPPoE and DMZ / Advanced DMZ for 'Bridge Mode' use of 3rd Party router on the HH4000 & Giga Hub

[navderek]

It would be great if Bell could confirm if they are going to update the FW on the HH4000 to enable a true bridge mode setup...also to stop the Wifi from automatically re-enabling itself anytime the HH4000 reboots itself. These are two MAJOR issues right now with the HH4000 and posted about on many forums (not just here).

It would be great if someone from Bell could chime in and let the community know if it is actually going to address these issues or not? If not, please explain why and please do not point to advanced DMZ as a solution because that doesn't actually work very well and severely impacts the performance on the Google Mesh (or any other pre-existing mesh setup). This is also discussed on many forums both on this one and externally by your customers.

We do realize the HH4000 is relatively new so there can be some improvements. We, as a community, just want to know if Bell plans to make those improvements or not.

Thanks,

-Derek

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❗AI Summary: 

When attempting to use a third-party router, customers frequently encounter networking challenges due to the absence of a true 'bridge mode'. This limitation has led to a variety of solutions involving PPPoE and the Advanced DMZ feature to avoid issues like double NAT; where two devices on the network are performing Network Address Translation (NAT). Double NAT can lead to problems with online gaming, port forwarding, and other applications that require a direct connection to the internet.

Some complications you may experience:

• Wi-Fi auto re-enabling: Even when disabled, the Bell Home Hub's Wi-Fi can turn back on after a reboot.
• Advanced DMZ limitations: Advanced DMZ can be unreliable, especially with third party mesh systems. PPPoE is preferred by users in this scenario.
• IP lease and connectivity drops: Devices lose connection when the public IP changes, requiring manual reconfiguration.
• Performance degradation: Speeds, especially download speeds can drop over time. A reboot or modem reset will be needed to restore.
• No static IPs: IP changes cause disruptions. Using DDNS can be considered.

In response, Bell Community users have detailed two primary methods to approximate a bridge mode: PPPoE passthrough and the use of the Advanced DMZ feature.

User-Shared Solutions:

PPPoE Passthrough: Often described as more stable and straightforward; it involves configuring the third-party router to establish the PPPoE connection directly with Bell. This effectively bypasses the Bell Home Hub 4000, Giga Hub and Giga Hub 2.0's routing functions, providing the third-party router with its own public IP address. To do this, users typically need to obtain their "b1" username and password from Bell. While stable, a significant drawback of this method is a potential reduction in internet speeds, particularly on plans faster than 500 Mbps, as many consumer routers struggle with the overhead of PPPoE.

Advanced DMZ: This method involves placing the third-party router in the modem's "Advanced Demilitarized Zone." This exposes the third-party router directly to the internet, which can result in higher performance. However, this solution is often reported to be less stable. For instance, rebooting your router might necessitate a subsequent reboot of your Giga Hub/Giga Hub 2.0 to restore the internet connection. Some have also reported experiencing lag spikes with this configuration. When using Advanced DMZ, it is advised to leave the login information on the third-party router blank, as entering PPPoE credentials can cause the connection to fail.

Configuration Tips from the Bell Community:

• When setting up either method, it's recommended to disable the Wi-Fi on the Bell Giga Hub/Giga Hub 2.0 to prevent interference.
• For PPPoE passthrough, connecting the WAN port of the third-party router to any LAN port on the Bell hub and configuring the router with your b1 credentials is the general procedure.
• For Advanced DMZ, users need to enable the feature in the Giga Hub/Giga Hub 2.0's settings and assign their third-party router to it. It's also highly recommended to not plug other devices directly into the Bell hub for security reasons when using Advanced DMZ.

Ultimately, the choice between PPPoE passthrough and Advanced DMZ depends on the user's priorities. If stability and ease of setup are paramount, PPPoE passthrough is often the recommended choice. For those who prioritize performance and are willing to troubleshoot potential instabilities, Advanced DMZ may be the preferred option.

[TheMartian]

Now, I did call few months back, the agent happily helped and said there is a bridge mode to allow me to use my UDM Pro as my primary router. He said he put the note on the account to enable it once I am "ready". Fast Forward to today, everyone that receives a call says there is no option to do bridge mode for HH4000?

Before anyone goes on my parade, I used Advance DMZ, every now and then since I called for bridge mode my network would stop. Removing the UDM on DMZ then re-adding is the only option.

[TheMartian]

3 years in and this is still an issue, I guess Bell really doesnt care about their clients and just wants to monopolize power.

[Vanadiel]

Running an UDM Pro is not for every client. I run one myself without an issue, but most clients just run off the home hub and do not have extensive private network setups.

For bridge mode it's the same reasoning, as only a small sub section would ever use bridge mode due to the PPPOE requirements, which will cause it's own issues on 3/3 plans, and even on the lower plans.

[Smitty]

Fair enough.  But Rogers allows it for their customers.  So right away the decision becomes easy between Bell and Rogers.  I don't hear of Rogers restricting it due to "...not for every client."  I am not being difficult, just the reasoning does not sit well on why bridging is prevented.  I cannot switch to Fibe with no bridging option.  The work-around is not fool proof.  I cannot be 24x7 hr tech support when it does not function in the instances.  Disappointing.

[Vanadiel]

The main difference is that Rogers uses DHCP, and Bell PPPOE.

Bridging DHCP is very simple as there's no overhead, passwords etc... It's almost identical as connecting a device to a regular switch.

PPPOE requires a username and password, and it also requires equipment that can process the PPPOE packets. That is where the problem lies, as the overhead will almost certainly cause issues unless you know how to configure it properly and have hardware PPPOE offload (the UDM Pro does not have proper PPPOE hardware overload).

ADMZ mode is not a true bridge mode, as the home hub still does the PPPOE offload and connection. 

[Vanadiel]

Just to show an example of a true bridge mode with Bell, below is the configuration for a full PPPOE bypass.

Only thing I use is the fibre GPON, my home hub is sitting on the shelve as I don't need it. Most users would have trouble getting this to work properly...

You need to configure the SFP+ port correctly so the GPON works and syncs properly, configure the PPPOE Client for authentication, and configure VLAN 35 in order to get internet connectivity. The VLAN 35 is another important item as without that there will be no internet connectivity, just a successful PPPOE connection.

That is why I mentioned it's not for every client...

[Retiredandbored]

Unfortunately the sfp+ Port on the newest gateway modems is built in and can't be bypassed. 

Bell unfortunately sits on poor due to its historic dsl framework. Cable has always been DHCP and avoids the restriction that Bell maintains poor username login on fibe. Probably the back end is still supporting poor because dsl and vdsl connections still are in place. Pain for the consumers of Fibe for sure so we are stuck with the unpredictable dmz and admz work around. 

[Vanadiel]

It can still be done, although it's pretty advanced to do it.

Most people do not care about external IP's or running servers, they just want a working internet connection. That is what the equipment is designed to provide.

[Smitty]

Understood.  But why not configure your Ubiquity Router WAN to "PPPOE" with username and password.  You could do that on the Security Gateway PRO-4 and I read you can do that on the new gateways. 

[Vanadiel]

Apparently it's problematic in DMZ or ADMZ mode. The UDM Pro will also have issues with any PPPOE processing above 1 Gbps connection speeds as it does not have hardware PPPOE offload. You be lucky if you get anything more than 1/1 out of a PPPOE connection with the UDM Pro.

That is why in my opinion it's better to use the Home hub in double NAT, if you don't have the ability to use a GPON directly. Double NAT should not cause any issues when using the service as a regular home user.

[Wildbill]

Hi,

Can someone please tell me how to put my bell gigahub 4000 into bridge mode, also when will bell start using ipv6 protocol?

[Vanadiel]

There is no true bridge mode on the 4000. The closest you can do is ADMZ, which is setup from within the modem GUI.

IPv6 roll out is unknown when that will happen.

[ty55]

I put the giga hub into bridge mode using the physical interface buttons and connected my own router and configured my pppoe information. It was working for maybe 2 hours before the WAN connection dropped suddenly and has not come back since.

The bell giga hub now says "Error 1202 No hsi configured". Ive reset and hard reset (factory reset), I have reconnected the fiber cables, re-entered my pppoe information on the giga hub and nothing has worked.

Theres barely any information on the internet when searching for this issue so hopefully people will find this when they are googling the same error.

It seems that bridge mode / third party router has caused some sort of conflict or raised a flag and is not authenticating properly.

Typical Bell. I bet you I will have to be on the phone for hours and talk to 5+ people to even come close to fixing this basic issue.

Anyways, If anyone else ran into this issue, try factory resetting and if that doesn't work, its Bells problem.

[Toyo]

How do I get my ppoe password? When I call support they tell me the 4000 hub doesn’t use a password and they won’t give me one? 

[Vanadiel]

It will be on your Mybell internet account page.