Using PPPoE and DMZ / Advanced DMZ for 'Bridge Mode' use of 3rd Party router on the HH4000 & Giga Hub

navderek
Contributor II

It would be great if Bell could confirm if they are going to update the FW on the HH4000 to enable a true bridge mode setup...also to stop the Wifi from automatically re-enabling itself anytime the HH4000 reboots itself. These are two MAJOR issues right now with the HH4000 and posted about on many forums (not just here).

It would be great if someone from Bell could chime in and let the community know if it is actually going to address these issues or not? If not, please explain why and please do not point to advanced DMZ as a solution because that doesn't actually work very well and severely impacts the performance on the Google Mesh (or any other pre-existing mesh setup). This is also discussed on many forums both on this one and externally by your customers.

We do realize the HH4000 is relatively new so there can be some improvements. We, as a community, just want to know if Bell plans to make those improvements or not.

Thanks,

-Derek

 

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AI Summary: 

When attempting to use a third-party router, customers frequently encounter networking challenges due to the absence of a true 'bridge mode'. This limitation has led to a variety of solutions involving PPPoE and the Advanced DMZ feature to avoid issues like double NAT; where two devices on the network are performing Network Address Translation (NAT). Double NAT can lead to problems with online gaming, port forwarding, and other applications that require a direct connection to the internet.

Some complications you may experience:

  • Wi-Fi auto re-enabling: Even when disabled, the Bell Home Hub's Wi-Fi can turn back on after a reboot.
  • Advanced DMZ limitations: Advanced DMZ can be unreliable, especially with third party mesh systems. PPPoE is preferred by users in this scenario.
  • IP lease and connectivity drops: Devices lose connection when the public IP changes, requiring manual reconfiguration.
  • Performance degradation: Speeds, especially download speeds can drop over time. A reboot or modem reset will be needed to restore.
  • No static IPs: IP changes cause disruptions. Using DDNS can be considered.

In response, Bell Community users have detailed two primary methods to approximate a bridge mode: PPPoE passthrough and the use of the Advanced DMZ feature.

User-Shared Solutions:

PPPoE Passthrough: Often described as more stable and straightforward; it involves configuring the third-party router to establish the PPPoE connection directly with Bell. This effectively bypasses the Bell Home Hub 4000, Giga Hub and Giga Hub 2.0's routing functions, providing the third-party router with its own public IP address. To do this, users typically need to obtain their "b1" username and password from Bell. While stable, a significant drawback of this method is a potential reduction in internet speeds, particularly on plans faster than 500 Mbps, as many consumer routers struggle with the overhead of PPPoE.

Advanced DMZ: This method involves placing the third-party router in the modem's "Advanced Demilitarized Zone." This exposes the third-party router directly to the internet, which can result in higher performance. However, this solution is often reported to be less stable. For instance, rebooting your router might necessitate a subsequent reboot of your Giga Hub/Giga Hub 2.0 to restore the internet connection. Some have also reported experiencing lag spikes with this configuration. When using Advanced DMZ, it is advised to leave the login information on the third-party router blank, as entering PPPoE credentials can cause the connection to fail.

Configuration Tips from the Bell Community:

  • When setting up either method, it's recommended to disable the Wi-Fi on the Bell Giga Hub/Giga Hub 2.0 to prevent interference.
  • For PPPoE passthrough, connecting the WAN port of the third-party router to any LAN port on the Bell hub and configuring the router with your b1 credentials is the general procedure.
  • For Advanced DMZ, users need to enable the feature in the Giga Hub/Giga Hub 2.0's settings and assign their third-party router to it. It's also highly recommended to not plug other devices directly into the Bell hub for security reasons when using Advanced DMZ.

Ultimately, the choice between PPPoE passthrough and Advanced DMZ depends on the user's priorities. If stability and ease of setup are paramount, PPPoE passthrough is often the recommended choice. For those who prioritize performance and are willing to troubleshoot potential instabilities, Advanced DMZ may be the preferred option.

 

 

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202 REPLIES 202

Toyo
Contributor II

Can you tell me where specifically? I’m not seeing it. 

Hibbie
Contributor II

Hi everyone,

I used the main solution at this thread:

1) PPoE on my router (b1 user name and password)

2) ADMZ on Gigahub on the MAC address of my router

3) DHCP turned off on GigaHub

All is working but I can’t access the GUI of the GigaHub anymore using 192.168.2.1. Not via wifi (my router wifi) neither via Ethernet to GigaHub.

How can I recover such access to GigaHub? Do I need to factory reset if I want to change something else because of the new DHCP settings turned off on GigaHub?

thanks

dks
Community All-Star
Community All-Star

Thank you for your question. In your situation (Giga Hub bypass) the only way to access the Giga Hub that I can think of is to disconnect your router completely and log in using another ethernet port from another device or by wireless. 

I am a Community All-Star and customer. I'm here to help by sharing my knowledge and experience. My views on Bell and the Community Forum are my own and not the views of Bell or any of its affiliates.

Hibbie
Contributor II

Hi @dks . Thanks a lot for a quick answer.

I have tried before connect a laptop via Ethernet direct to the modem and no success. I believe it is because DHCP is off and anything connected to it doesn’t get an IP Address so no connection. Also, can’t do wifi (on the GH) because it is turned off.

Spent a lot of time last night researching and still could not find a solution. Other people seem able to connect one way or another, but maybe my modem IP changed to other default when I turned off DHCP.

Hello, How do you get your Bell pppoe pw?

Hibbie
Contributor II

@SteRi . You can set it up on mybell.ca. Go to My Profile - Internet - change pwd (under your username for internet that start with lowercase b).

I was not able to change the pwd online, so I reach out support via chat and they helped me doing on their side.

@dks just as an update, I end up reseting the modem, using only aDMZ now (no PPoE and DHCP on GigaHub modem). Speeds are better and I can access the modem via my router wifi. I may keep that way for some time and check performance.

But echoing everyone here, Bell should implement an easy setting for bridge mode (like Rogers).

dks
Community All-Star
Community All-Star

Glad it worked out for you. Bell will never implement a true bridge mode in their hubs because credentials are required to open your fibre connection, provided either through your own router and PPPoE pass through or directly through the hub. Wish what you want, it will likely not happen before it snows in Windsor in July. And even then it’s unlikely. 

I am a Community All-Star and customer. I'm here to help by sharing my knowledge and experience. My views on Bell and the Community Forum are my own and not the views of Bell or any of its affiliates.

Retiredandbored
Valued Contributor

From a technological point of view they can't unless they want to design a system of two protocols. DHCP as you find out east and on cable broadband, alongside Pppoeas the latter has to stay in place as long as there is still dsl, ADSL, and fibre to the neighborhood, technically known as fibre to the node. 

They haven't done it and they have stripped away pppoe pass through in the hh3000 onwards, built in the SFP module into the box on the Gigahub so we could just bypass the 4000 and they implemented convoluted pppoe pass through dmz and amdz that are not reliable.  It is possible but this is Bell and any other big three provider. Networking isn't designed to meet individual internal networking needs. They are designed to be limited and easily managed by bell support toolkits and virtual tools and with their dedicated pods even if that is not the best solution for your home. So we as users are forced to come here and do our best with products not designed to meet our individual networking needs. 

By the way 8 have seen snow in Winsor and Niagara falls in early July in my lifetime, a snowballs chance works better but nice introduction of humour. 

Keep trying to make it work if you can or if your needs warrent it ship other alternatives is the other choice when available. 

Like many I prefer the comfort of my own internal network, firewalling, port control, etc with cabling and limited use of wifi and static IP addresses all around. I gave up the ghost recently on my own high end to link router cabling and extenders as they were nothing but trouble. Cogeco may not have built in bridge into their interface but you can call in, although if a factory reset or upgrade occurs you may have to call in, but all their techs are knowledgeable on how to do it

Oh well maybe it will snow in July. 

Bruce

dks
Community All-Star
Community All-Star

With all respect, Bell has never had a true bridge mode in any of their HomeHub devices. Until the Giga Hub was introduced, there was always a separate ONT, which allowed a user to completely bypass the modem with their own router. This was also an additional step for Bell to take on installation. Removing the ONT and putting it into the Giga Hub was a cost saving and security enhancing decision, I believe. The ADMZ function in the Giga Hub is also not perfect, but that is a firmware design issue from the manufacturer and not Bell's issue. What Bell is trying to do is, as they have always done, prevent users from overloading the network's capacity. If you can imagine thousands of users running torrents 24/7, that is a challenge from a network capacity framework. By putting limits on what users can do, Bell is putting their network first. They always have done this, since the days of DSL and even dialup. 

I am a Community All-Star and customer. I'm here to help by sharing my knowledge and experience. My views on Bell and the Community Forum are my own and not the views of Bell or any of its affiliates.

Hello @Hibbie, the credential uner my profile is not the one for pppoe pass through, or if it is then it does not work with HH4000. I think I will try your other suggestion with aDMZ instead.

Thanks

Guna
Contributor

I have used my Orbi Mesh System with Rogers without any trouble. I switched over to Bell a year ago and have not been able to get my Orbi to properly connect with my Bell modem. 

I tried the normal setup through the Orbi app, I tried reboot/factory reset through my laptop and I also tried factory resetting my Bell modem...still unable to connect to the internet through the modem. I also bought a brand new Orbi mesh system (same model) to test if the model I owned was an issue...still no luck.

The Orbi tech asked me to try to setup the Bell Modem in bridge mode but I am told by Bell that the Giga Hub does not allow for this.

Wondering if anyone else had any issues with their Orbi system.

Retiredandbored
Valued Contributor

Closing statement by me with some definitional clarifications. 

A bridge is a network level under the OSI model at the OSI level 2. Look it up or feel free to expand here. 

Fron Google AI overview 

"level 2 network bridge," also called a "Layer 2 bridge," is a networking device that connects multiple network segments together by operating at the data link layer (Layer 2) of the OSI model, essentially allowing it to forward data frames between different networks based on their MAC addresses, creating a single unified network"

Any gateway has a bridge inherently designed into it whether point to point protocol PPP or Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol, DHCP. 

The way bell historically has allowed us to bypass through the HH Series gateways is via terms like poor passthrough DMZ and ADMZ as a new third option. The process of bridging DHCP is fairly simple.  Typically a tick box called Bridge Mode turns on and off the internal bridge between modem and when off there the bridge is modem to the Ethernet port switch and all routing and is now bridge that way via Ethernet to our own equipment. Basically a modem and separate router now. 

PPP is a bit more complicated and requires backup and restore configurations to make things easier when swapping a box or support from isp as you need to take your own equipment out of the loop for them to diagnose beyond the gateway. 

Companies that require you to call them to bridge DHCP basically don't want you doing it but know if they don't they risk a lot of users because this bridge has always been a  simple. On off which they had never used the term bridge mode and just said bridge on or off. It is a toggle or power switch. 

Yes bell has never had a bridge mode. That is a commercial term not a networking term and you can see the confusion it creates. I had to hit my network certification texts to clear this up for me just recently. 

A bridge has always and still can be created on Bell PPP. It used to be easier, but then again our gateways were doing less diverse things and it was there was only one way. Poor passthrough turn on or off along with DMZ and dedicated msc of your router 

Inherently there has always been high overhead on memory software and networking levels because it isn't just turn on or off (bridge mode loose that term please)

It occurs at a prograned level due to the need to build dmz ppoe passthrough is done for you in the past and you have to assign a Mac. 

So yes you can create a bridge bridge mode is just the DHCP commercial work label for the on off switch DHCP is easier and ppoe requires user configuration of the Mac and dmz and ppoe passthrough. 

Personally I believe that Bell and it's providers are just leaving the ability but not making it easy and tech support won't guide you in most cases unless you pay for expert tech and I don't know how far they will go.

 I am done. No more comments discussion debate comnents from me. The techies who still up on things can figure it out and they will. Mee I am retired and not bored but also easily confused. 

I think that is my last goodbye. 

I will log only when I need to and I can live with the issues as they are and a solid network diagnostic by an insight tech has resolved my issues. I will not log in any more for now. 

If only bell would put some more 5 g booster antennas in to clear up the dead spot at my neighbourhood. I just do all my calling on wifi calling preferred. They have confirmed congestion from too many active users at the tower and it was put on the list. 

All the best this has been fun but I have more important ways to spend my dead time. 

Desty
Contributor II

What are you guys using with Ubiquiti hardware now ? PPPoE Passthrough, AMDZ or DoubleNAT.

Seems like latency is speed is always a problem ?

Hi, hello! I’d like to set my Bell Home Hub to bridge mode and use PPPoE authentication on my downstream router.
How can I do this, or who should I contact for assistance?

WelshTerrier
Community All-Star
Community All-Star

Good Day & Welcome to the Bell Community Forum.

Thank you for posting your question.

Please refer to the Bell Community Forum thread that I have included below. Go to the helpful replies with the Green

Solved: Re: When will Bell add 'Bridge Mode' feature to HH... - Page 12 - Bell

Take care

I am a Community All-Star and customer. I'm here to help by sharing my knowledge and experience. My views on Bell and the Community Forum are my own and not the views of Bell or any of its affiliates.