Using PPPoE and DMZ / Advanced DMZ for 'Bridge Mode' use of 3rd Party router on the HH4000 & Giga Hub

[navderek]

It would be great if Bell could confirm if they are going to update the FW on the HH4000 to enable a true bridge mode setup...also to stop the Wifi from automatically re-enabling itself anytime the HH4000 reboots itself. These are two MAJOR issues right now with the HH4000 and posted about on many forums (not just here).

It would be great if someone from Bell could chime in and let the community know if it is actually going to address these issues or not? If not, please explain why and please do not point to advanced DMZ as a solution because that doesn't actually work very well and severely impacts the performance on the Google Mesh (or any other pre-existing mesh setup). This is also discussed on many forums both on this one and externally by your customers.

We do realize the HH4000 is relatively new so there can be some improvements. We, as a community, just want to know if Bell plans to make those improvements or not.

Thanks,

-Derek

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

❗AI Summary: 

When attempting to use a third-party router, customers frequently encounter networking challenges due to the absence of a true 'bridge mode'. This limitation has led to a variety of solutions involving PPPoE and the Advanced DMZ feature to avoid issues like double NAT; where two devices on the network are performing Network Address Translation (NAT). Double NAT can lead to problems with online gaming, port forwarding, and other applications that require a direct connection to the internet.

Some complications you may experience:

• Wi-Fi auto re-enabling: Even when disabled, the Bell Home Hub's Wi-Fi can turn back on after a reboot.
• Advanced DMZ limitations: Advanced DMZ can be unreliable, especially with third party mesh systems. PPPoE is preferred by users in this scenario.
• IP lease and connectivity drops: Devices lose connection when the public IP changes, requiring manual reconfiguration.
• Performance degradation: Speeds, especially download speeds can drop over time. A reboot or modem reset will be needed to restore.
• No static IPs: IP changes cause disruptions. Using DDNS can be considered.

In response, Bell Community users have detailed two primary methods to approximate a bridge mode: PPPoE passthrough and the use of the Advanced DMZ feature.

User-Shared Solutions:

PPPoE Passthrough: Often described as more stable and straightforward; it involves configuring the third-party router to establish the PPPoE connection directly with Bell. This effectively bypasses the Bell Home Hub 4000, Giga Hub and Giga Hub 2.0's routing functions, providing the third-party router with its own public IP address. To do this, users typically need to obtain their "b1" username and password from Bell. While stable, a significant drawback of this method is a potential reduction in internet speeds, particularly on plans faster than 500 Mbps, as many consumer routers struggle with the overhead of PPPoE.

Advanced DMZ: This method involves placing the third-party router in the modem's "Advanced Demilitarized Zone." This exposes the third-party router directly to the internet, which can result in higher performance. However, this solution is often reported to be less stable. For instance, rebooting your router might necessitate a subsequent reboot of your Giga Hub/Giga Hub 2.0 to restore the internet connection. Some have also reported experiencing lag spikes with this configuration. When using Advanced DMZ, it is advised to leave the login information on the third-party router blank, as entering PPPoE credentials can cause the connection to fail.

Configuration Tips from the Bell Community:

• When setting up either method, it's recommended to disable the Wi-Fi on the Bell Giga Hub/Giga Hub 2.0 to prevent interference.
• For PPPoE passthrough, connecting the WAN port of the third-party router to any LAN port on the Bell hub and configuring the router with your b1 credentials is the general procedure.
• For Advanced DMZ, users need to enable the feature in the Giga Hub/Giga Hub 2.0's settings and assign their third-party router to it. It's also highly recommended to not plug other devices directly into the Bell hub for security reasons when using Advanced DMZ.

Ultimately, the choice between PPPoE passthrough and Advanced DMZ depends on the user's priorities. If stability and ease of setup are paramount, PPPoE passthrough is often the recommended choice. For those who prioritize performance and are willing to troubleshoot potential instabilities, Advanced DMZ may be the preferred option.

[Sasi]

I have tested this again using a different laptop with cat6 ethernet cable and i was able to see both download & upload speeds somewhere in the range of 800 Mbps.
The problem was with the desktop.

This Internet-speed-test link by Bell really helped rather than trying to figure out how google/fast.com/Ookla speed test works. I am not sure why this link wasn't really mentioned when people talk about speed issue.
https://support.bell.ca/internet/internet-speed-test
This clearly provides both speeds between:
1) Internet and Bell Modem
2) Bell Modem and My Device in the home network

Thank you all for the help.

[dks]

Thanks for the link to the tool. In my case, the tool fails when testing modem to device speed. My suspicion is that it's a firewall issue. That's something for me to investigate. I'm glad you found the tool useful and a solution. 

[JoaQuim]

Has anyone found a solution to this yet?

I just got 1.5 G internet with TV yesterday and the HH4000 is a huge disappointment. Bridge mode is not supported as earlier mentioned, Advanced DMZ doesn't work properly and it's very frustrating to have 2 routers on the network.

Then I decided to try and make it work by removing my Ubiquiti Firewall and AP and working of the Bell Router. To my surprise, it is impossible to change the IP range on the Bell Modem. I spent more than 4 hours of my day trying work arounds and it is indeed a very disappointing experience to have to cancel the service after only 1 day. 

[ZaneP]

Hi @JoaQuim ,

Since there is no true bridge mode for Bell's gateway modems, PPPoE is your alternative to ADMZ. 

You wrote this:

"To my surprise, it is impossible to change the IP range on the Bell Modem"

You can change the LAN IP address range on the modem. Log into the dashboard -->Advanced Tools and Settings-->Networking column--->DHCP. 

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're trying to do.

[JoaQuim]

Hi @ZaneP ,

Sadly, Bell hasn't provided me with an account yet to be able to change my PPPoE password. They said it takes up to 7 days to register my account, not sure why. I called several times and each technical support would give me a different answer. The first lady reset my password and then the 2nd person i spoke with told me that they don't and can't change the PPPoE password and it's default. 

Regarding the IP range, the network part is greyed out. I can only edit the last 2 octets. My network is on 10.1.1.0/24 and I have several VMs on that range. Changing them is more trouble than just cancelling Bell.

[dks]

Sounds like confusion. Your PPOE account credentials  begin with b1 and can't be changed. You can change your account password. You will need to provide the e-mail your account is registered with. 
https://mybell.bell.ca/ForgotPassword/RecoverPassword  

You modem password can be changed in the modem dashboard by logging into the modem as outlined here.   

https://support.bell.ca/internet/connection-help/manage_bell_usernames_and_passwords?step=2#step2 

[ZaneP]

Hi @JoaQuim ,

Regarding your credentials (B1xxxxxx and password), I think you're not getting correct information. Perhaps sending a DM to one of the moderators here would be helpful. They could look into this for you.

You could also post this problem directly and privately to the Bell Canada Direct forum on DSL Reports. That forum is meant to help solve specific problems. You'll need to sign up for DSLR, as you cannot make an anonymous post on the Direct forum.

https://www.dslreports.com/forum/sympatdirect

I understand your reluctance to modify your current IP range. I assume you're not getting a successful admin login to the modem? Using your own gear and making a PPPoE connection to the modem would be your best option, imo. You'll need the login to turn off DHCP, etc.

I don't work for Bell, so I have no agenda when I say that it has the best and fastest fiber optic network in Canada. Hope you can sort out the problems soon, rather than cancelling.

Keep us posted on how it's going!

[JoaQuim]

I do have the B1 username but not the PPPoE password. When I called tech support, she told me there was no password and they she reset it to Ottawa7 which still doesn't work. I also tried my modem login password and mybell password (Not sure I have a proper account yet for some reason).

I did change my router/modem password.

[JoaQuim]

@ZaneP trust me I want this to work more than anything and this is why I'm waiting until I get the "proper" account registration which should take up to 7 days based on what all agents told me. I can confirm that I do have the admin login as I used the password given with the modem and then I changed the admin password upon initial login. I was surprised that it didn't allow me to change the IP range and then had this confirmed by a tech specialist from Bell.

[ZaneP]

Sorry, my mistake. The router IP address and the LAN IP address range is hard-coded to 192.168.x.x

[cclo]

I like to add to this...as I have the same issue.  I have "Firewalla Gold Plus".  If you don't know what that is, google it.  It is a 2.5Gbps Firewall...   All I get under PPPoE is 1.3Gbps out of my 3.0Gbps.  If I use Advance DMZ and DHCP, I get 2.3Gbps... but my Network Latency   I been try to find a solution for 8 months!!!!!!!

[JoaQuim]

@cclo

Make sure MTU and MSS Clamping are set to auto.

[BIMologist]

I was told on the phone by tech that there is no bridge mode possible with this model.

What's the point of all the speed when you cannot use your own router.

I was able to disable the Wi-Fi luckily.

How can one put the modem in bridge mode, if not can one get an older modem which allows you to do so?

Thanks

[dks]

The tech was correct. There is no bridge mode in the Giga Hub modem/router. However, you can plug your own router into the modem and use your credentials to log in. Wi-Fi is also not fully disabled. Several "hidden" channels remain active for the purpose of Fibe TV, even if you don't use it. Bell will not send you an older modem, apparently. You may find support in the DSL Reports Bell Canada forum. https://www.dslreports.com/forum/sympat

[BIMologist]

I was able to get bridge mode working using PPPOE.

https://forum.bell.ca/t5/Internet/Using-PPPoE-and-DMZ-Advanced-DMZ-for-Bridge-Mode-use-of-3rd/m-p/22...

1. Using My Bell changed PW of the b1 account(may not be necessary as I think default is blank)

2. Disabled Primary wifi.

3. Disabled DHCP

4. Restart modem

5. On my router set Internet connection to PPPOE.

 set the username b1xxxxx and PW

Reboot router.

At first it seemed like it was not working. Took a few minutes to get the Internet connection via PPOE

Thanks BellDRock

 BellDRock Community Manager  ‎01-26-2022 04:09 PM @@ The reboot re- enabling WIFI issue you mentioned has been solved and should not re-occur.  For the Bridge mode portion in your post, the DMZ / Advanced DMZ in the Advanced Tool section of the GUI should provide the necessary functionalities needed.   Depending on the scenario you want to achieve, in your 3rd party device that should be connected on a LAN port you may also need to do some or all the following configuration tasks:     

Turn off Whole Home Wi-Fi and Primary Wi-Fi network on the HH4K / Enable Wi-Fi on device Turn off DHCP in the HH4K / Enable DHCP on your device Configure PPPoE settings on your device by either inputting your Bell b1 and password [Bell Internet user ID (e.g., b1xxxxxx)Opens in a new tab or window] - (under the internet tab on the top page of the GUI) or inputting other credentials you may want to use. This will circumvent the HH4K NA