Using PPPoE and DMZ / Advanced DMZ for 'Bridge Mode' use of 3rd Party router on the HH4000 & Giga Hub

[navderek]

It would be great if Bell could confirm if they are going to update the FW on the HH4000 to enable a true bridge mode setup...also to stop the Wifi from automatically re-enabling itself anytime the HH4000 reboots itself. These are two MAJOR issues right now with the HH4000 and posted about on many forums (not just here).

It would be great if someone from Bell could chime in and let the community know if it is actually going to address these issues or not? If not, please explain why and please do not point to advanced DMZ as a solution because that doesn't actually work very well and severely impacts the performance on the Google Mesh (or any other pre-existing mesh setup). This is also discussed on many forums both on this one and externally by your customers.

We do realize the HH4000 is relatively new so there can be some improvements. We, as a community, just want to know if Bell plans to make those improvements or not.

Thanks,

-Derek

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❗AI Summary: 

When attempting to use a third-party router, customers frequently encounter networking challenges due to the absence of a true 'bridge mode'. This limitation has led to a variety of solutions involving PPPoE and the Advanced DMZ feature to avoid issues like double NAT; where two devices on the network are performing Network Address Translation (NAT). Double NAT can lead to problems with online gaming, port forwarding, and other applications that require a direct connection to the internet.

Some complications you may experience:

• Wi-Fi auto re-enabling: Even when disabled, the Bell Home Hub's Wi-Fi can turn back on after a reboot.
• Advanced DMZ limitations: Advanced DMZ can be unreliable, especially with third party mesh systems. PPPoE is preferred by users in this scenario.
• IP lease and connectivity drops: Devices lose connection when the public IP changes, requiring manual reconfiguration.
• Performance degradation: Speeds, especially download speeds can drop over time. A reboot or modem reset will be needed to restore.
• No static IPs: IP changes cause disruptions. Using DDNS can be considered.

In response, Bell Community users have detailed two primary methods to approximate a bridge mode: PPPoE passthrough and the use of the Advanced DMZ feature.

User-Shared Solutions:

PPPoE Passthrough: Often described as more stable and straightforward; it involves configuring the third-party router to establish the PPPoE connection directly with Bell. This effectively bypasses the Bell Home Hub 4000, Giga Hub and Giga Hub 2.0's routing functions, providing the third-party router with its own public IP address. To do this, users typically need to obtain their "b1" username and password from Bell. While stable, a significant drawback of this method is a potential reduction in internet speeds, particularly on plans faster than 500 Mbps, as many consumer routers struggle with the overhead of PPPoE.

Advanced DMZ: This method involves placing the third-party router in the modem's "Advanced Demilitarized Zone." This exposes the third-party router directly to the internet, which can result in higher performance. However, this solution is often reported to be less stable. For instance, rebooting your router might necessitate a subsequent reboot of your Giga Hub/Giga Hub 2.0 to restore the internet connection. Some have also reported experiencing lag spikes with this configuration. When using Advanced DMZ, it is advised to leave the login information on the third-party router blank, as entering PPPoE credentials can cause the connection to fail.

Configuration Tips from the Bell Community:

• When setting up either method, it's recommended to disable the Wi-Fi on the Bell Giga Hub/Giga Hub 2.0 to prevent interference.
• For PPPoE passthrough, connecting the WAN port of the third-party router to any LAN port on the Bell hub and configuring the router with your b1 credentials is the general procedure.
• For Advanced DMZ, users need to enable the feature in the Giga Hub/Giga Hub 2.0's settings and assign their third-party router to it. It's also highly recommended to not plug other devices directly into the Bell hub for security reasons when using Advanced DMZ.

Ultimately, the choice between PPPoE passthrough and Advanced DMZ depends on the user's priorities. If stability and ease of setup are paramount, PPPoE passthrough is often the recommended choice. For those who prioritize performance and are willing to troubleshoot potential instabilities, Advanced DMZ may be the preferred option.

[SneakOdyssey]

I completely agree with @Ron_Burgundy  on this one. 

DMZ, aDMZ and PPPoE passthrough are all not proper bridge-mode. 

I've been on Bell, and I've been on Rogers. I love the Rogers modem - straightforward and Bridge Mode is clearly right in front of you. First time I set it up, I essentially circumvent it.

Turn it to Bridge Mode and forget it. Everything goes through my own system.

this is the rogers modem landing page on-boot (after initial setup): Bridge Mode - right there in the centre

When Bell delivers enterprise internet to corporations and other enterprise environments - do they force the client to use their hardware?

[iLiving]

Hello,  we need a solution for the subpar passthrough performance of the H4000. Intermittent slowness and latency.

Bell Internet Speed Test:

Network to Modem = 7818/7665/2ms

Modem to Device = 1335/3188/2ms

Modem is connected via 10Gbps port with a Cat7 Cable to a 10Gbps RJ45 SFP+ port. 

Please allow us to bypass this junk or fix it so we get the speeds we're paying for on our advanced networks. Those who sign up for 3Gbps+ do NOT need bell's modem at the heart of our networks. This a common enough sentiment on the forum. Wasting way too much time with this...

[Neb]

I agree with @SneakOdyssey and  @Ron_Burgundy. Bridge slider is too much to ask it's seams. On top of that they are not reading questions. Question: With 25 devices connected, Bell Hub collapsing/disconnecting, Answer: Because of community can you clarify. All devices: computer, laptop, camera, doorbell, thermostat, etc are pushing data packets. Mind boggling.giving misleading information about B1 password. There is NO B1 or b1 user name and password on Bill !!!! And where in the Internet Service Section Exactly we can find B1 or b1 Password???

[Neb]

When I click on Link: internet service section I got: 

431 Request Header Fields Too Large

[dks]

You might wish to check out the Bell forum on DSL Reports. There are many experienced Bell users there, with a depth of knowledge and similar advanced networks. https://www.dslreports.com/forum/sympat

[dks]

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@Neb wrote:

There is NO B1 or b1 user name and password on Bill !!!! And where in the Internet Service Section Exactly we can find B1 or b1 Password???

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I hear your frustration. You will find your b1 user name on your bill (on line or mailed) by logging into the Bell web page and clicking on MyBell ==> MyServices ==> and scroll down to your Internet account. Your account name (your b1 user name) is there. You can recover your user name and password here under Manage Your Account On Line. https://support.bell.ca/Internet . Hope that helps. 

[Neb]

Thank you @dks. It is frustrating that all Internet Provider like to be engaged you in they "environment" 365 days in year and to become your "hobby" resolving simple things like stupid slide button for bridge mode or when I turn off WiFi I am expecting to stay turned off when Modem reboots. I am engineer from DOS time when modem, computers and other equipment is working, if setup correctly. Today I need to go on different sites to resolve problem. That si problem with other IP-s. I had problem with Rogers when dropping connection to 500-1000 ms multiple time in hour and I send them logs from PfSense, Graffana and ping from RasberyPi to they servers which shows drops and they ask me: Did you reset your modem? I cancelled service on spot.

My observation:

-DMZ is limited to 1Gbs also on some systems with PFSense, DD-WRT and Sophos installation PPoe passthrough is limited to 1Gbs. Tested with 1Gbs, 2.5 Gbs and 10 Gbs card Intel, Chellsio and Melanox cards.

- Ping from my home is 4-5 ms, but Download and Upload Latency sometimes going  up to 200ms, that is weird traffic shaping.

Bell attract customers with 1.5Gbs speed, which is gimmick and they are surprised when customers, who have 1Gbs Nic don't have 1.5Gbs speed. so they need to answer more calls. Marketing team is laughing all the way on they mess.

My suggestion for Bell:

-Engineers should contact Sagemcom to implement Bridge button in GUI of modem because you will get much less calls of angry customers. You already have many buttons in Modem GUI, adding one more is not problem.

-If Wifi is off it means off even if I reboot modem 

- Review your traffic shaping policy and don't throttle non-Bell DNS server.

I will forget this for Bell Forum Admin or Moderators: My Modem Firmware is 1.16.5 and Yes I Restarted, Reset and Unplug Modem few times waiting from 10 minutes to 36 hours. 

[happysmp]

Switched from Rogers to bell recently. Was a very long time customer with them. Agree Rogers internet is straight forward for bridge mode. Bell internet (1.5gbps, gigahub 4000) has been frustrating!

internet connection drops, wifi network stability issues, and of course no bridge mode!

Followed the recommended post here with PPPoe. Gigahub LAN to my routers WAN. 
note that turning off DHCP, Bell whole home wifi made the fibe TV receivers unresponsive. Had to turn all that back on again

reading the posts here I didn't realize others were experiencing local wifi issue and that number of devices was contributing to it. 

I have 60 or so devices in my home. No issues after purchasing a new router taking that responsibility away from bell.

[dks]

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@happysmp wrote:

Switched from Rogers to bell recently. Was a very long time customer with them. Agree Rogers internet is straight forward for bridge mode. Bell internet (1.5gbps, gigahub 4000) has been frustrating!

internet connection drops, wifi network stability issues, and of course no bridge mode!

Followed the recommended post here with PPPoe. Gigahub LAN to my routers WAN. 
note that turning off DHCP, Bell whole home wifi made the fibe TV receivers unresponsive. Had to turn all that back on again

reading the posts here I didn't realize others were experiencing local wifi issue and that number of devices was contributing to it. 

I have 60 or so devices in my home. No issues after purchasing a new router taking that responsibility away from bell.

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New customers who come to Bell from cable systems (full disclosure: I was both a Rogers and Bell customer during COVID for technical reasons; now only Bell) may not realize that the underlying technologies of the two systems are entirely, utterly, totally different. The modems are different, from different manufacturers and with different features, as you point out. I won't debate which is better, because, as the saying goes, "Play the hand you're dealt". Bell won't change their technologies, although I have seen incremental improvements over time.  

You make some important points. Don't turn of DHCP. It can have detrimental effects on your connected devices. Part of that is that because of the underlying system design, the Fibe TV receivers (including satellite TV receivers, I discovered) use hidden wireless channels to connect. The same is true for Whole Home Internet. Users may find their own mesh network or the Bell pods (full disclosure, I have five pods and they work very much to my satisfaction) are possible solutions, as is your solution with your own router. The Giga Hub has had a firmware update to make that an option (kind of like an automatic, internal bridge mode) which works for some. If your solution works for you, great. It really is a matter of trial and error, at times. That's where user communities can often help. I have 23 devices, 21 wireless and 2 wired. They work for me and I hope yours work for you.  

[Joey2]

need DDNS support for google domian

[RMM]

Can the 3rd party device(s) be a TP Link 16 port unmanaged switch ( I have multiple Cat 5 drops in a large house ) and I am researching adding an Eero or Linksys Velop Tri Band Mesh network.  If I do the config tasks you note here, will this scenario work well with my Bell HH 3000?  Is there any benefit to upgrading my tier to Fibe 500 and arranging for a HH 4000 ( note: My HH 3000 is over 4 yrs old ) TIA

[Sasi]

I have recently switched from Rogers to Bell and I am having issues after doing the Bridge Mode setting (which was suggested in this forum). I never had this problem with Rogers Modem as they support bridge mode natively.

My Issues:
1) The download speed measured from My Computer that is connected to My Router via a cat6 ethernet cable (with a Gigabit network card) is reported as very low (under 20 Mbps) while the Upload speed is reported as 900 Mbps.

2) I also can't access the modem using 192.168.2.1 from my desktop while connected to my router
    I guess this is expected as there is no visibility of Bell Modem in my LAN.

Please help me troubleshoot my issues.

My Bell Service: 1.5 Gbps
My Router: Ubiquiti Unifi UDM Pro (connected to Bell Modem 10G port)

BRIDGE Mode Settings I did:
On BELL MODEM:
1) Connected WAN of my Router to 10G port of the Bell Modem
2) Turned Off Primary/Guest WIFI
3) Turned Off UPnP (via advanced settings)

On MY ROUTER (UDM-Pro):
1) Setup WAN to use PPPoE (IPv4 Connection) using the b1 userID/passwd.

A) Speed Test results: My Desktop <=> My Router:
Site                  Download (Mbps)          Upload (Mbps)
Google             12                    874
Fast.com          10                    750
Ookla               942                   853       (only Ookla reported high download speed)

B) Speed Test results: My Desktop <=> Bell Giga Modem (directly connected to LAN1 port)
Site                  Download (Mbps)          Upload (Mbps)
Google             913                   743
Fast.com          850                   710
Ookla               760                   929

Bell Modem     1310                 1009   (from Bell Modem)
My Router        871                   880    (from my Router)

[Sasi]

While waiting to get some help, I would like to highlight the fact that my issue is weird that ONLY the download speed is very low (under 20mbps) while the upload speed is close to 900 mbps.

[dks]

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@Sasi wrote:

While waiting to get some help, I would like to highlight the fact that my issue is weird that ONLY the download speed is very low (under 20mbps) while the upload speed is close to 900 mbps.

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Have you tried the Virtual Repair Tool? It may be able to adjust your profile and correct any other errors. https://support.bell.ca/Troubleshooting_tools_and_Help/Internet 

[Sasi]

Thanks dks.
I did try the virtual repair tool but not much help.
It just rebooted my modem a couple of times and at the end it gave up and asked me to call tech support.