Using PPPoE and DMZ / Advanced DMZ for 'Bridge Mode' use of 3rd Party router on the HH4000 & Giga Hub

[navderek]

It would be great if Bell could confirm if they are going to update the FW on the HH4000 to enable a true bridge mode setup...also to stop the Wifi from automatically re-enabling itself anytime the HH4000 reboots itself. These are two MAJOR issues right now with the HH4000 and posted about on many forums (not just here).

It would be great if someone from Bell could chime in and let the community know if it is actually going to address these issues or not? If not, please explain why and please do not point to advanced DMZ as a solution because that doesn't actually work very well and severely impacts the performance on the Google Mesh (or any other pre-existing mesh setup). This is also discussed on many forums both on this one and externally by your customers.

We do realize the HH4000 is relatively new so there can be some improvements. We, as a community, just want to know if Bell plans to make those improvements or not.

Thanks,

-Derek

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❗AI Summary: 

When attempting to use a third-party router, customers frequently encounter networking challenges due to the absence of a true 'bridge mode'. This limitation has led to a variety of solutions involving PPPoE and the Advanced DMZ feature to avoid issues like double NAT; where two devices on the network are performing Network Address Translation (NAT). Double NAT can lead to problems with online gaming, port forwarding, and other applications that require a direct connection to the internet.

Some complications you may experience:

• Wi-Fi auto re-enabling: Even when disabled, the Bell Home Hub's Wi-Fi can turn back on after a reboot.
• Advanced DMZ limitations: Advanced DMZ can be unreliable, especially with third party mesh systems. PPPoE is preferred by users in this scenario.
• IP lease and connectivity drops: Devices lose connection when the public IP changes, requiring manual reconfiguration.
• Performance degradation: Speeds, especially download speeds can drop over time. A reboot or modem reset will be needed to restore.
• No static IPs: IP changes cause disruptions. Using DDNS can be considered.

In response, Bell Community users have detailed two primary methods to approximate a bridge mode: PPPoE passthrough and the use of the Advanced DMZ feature.

User-Shared Solutions:

PPPoE Passthrough: Often described as more stable and straightforward; it involves configuring the third-party router to establish the PPPoE connection directly with Bell. This effectively bypasses the Bell Home Hub 4000, Giga Hub and Giga Hub 2.0's routing functions, providing the third-party router with its own public IP address. To do this, users typically need to obtain their "b1" username and password from Bell. While stable, a significant drawback of this method is a potential reduction in internet speeds, particularly on plans faster than 500 Mbps, as many consumer routers struggle with the overhead of PPPoE.

Advanced DMZ: This method involves placing the third-party router in the modem's "Advanced Demilitarized Zone." This exposes the third-party router directly to the internet, which can result in higher performance. However, this solution is often reported to be less stable. For instance, rebooting your router might necessitate a subsequent reboot of your Giga Hub/Giga Hub 2.0 to restore the internet connection. Some have also reported experiencing lag spikes with this configuration. When using Advanced DMZ, it is advised to leave the login information on the third-party router blank, as entering PPPoE credentials can cause the connection to fail.

Configuration Tips from the Bell Community:

• When setting up either method, it's recommended to disable the Wi-Fi on the Bell Giga Hub/Giga Hub 2.0 to prevent interference.
• For PPPoE passthrough, connecting the WAN port of the third-party router to any LAN port on the Bell hub and configuring the router with your b1 credentials is the general procedure.
• For Advanced DMZ, users need to enable the feature in the Giga Hub/Giga Hub 2.0's settings and assign their third-party router to it. It's also highly recommended to not plug other devices directly into the Bell hub for security reasons when using Advanced DMZ.

Ultimately, the choice between PPPoE passthrough and Advanced DMZ depends on the user's priorities. If stability and ease of setup are paramount, PPPoE passthrough is often the recommended choice. For those who prioritize performance and are willing to troubleshoot potential instabilities, Advanced DMZ may be the preferred option.

[Vincentbk]

I play competitive game a lot. Double NAT is no go for me. And latency in games are not good as Oppoe

[SandMan77]

Hello,

Any suggestions on how to tune or properly setup stable giga hub advanced dmz?

On surface it works, I get public IP, but it is unstable.
Every 5-10 seconds there are spikes of packets loss, looks like, between client and giga hub.

Some more information in my post @ dslreports - link below

https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r33792944-Internet-Giga-hub-advanced-dmz-unstable-link-packet-loss

Clients with 192... private network ip address with static/dynamic and/or with/without DMZ (advanced dmz checkbox unchecked) work without any issues.

Thanks!

[Vanadiel]

I use a HH3000 and UDM Pro SE. There's a known issue with the routing table for the HH3000 when using ADMZ. I fixed it by adding a static route on the UDM. Otherwise it would get the external IP, but no internet connectivity.

It works fine, but it's not a true bridge mode.

[JeffWScott]

I had this is exact problem a few days ago! I was getting the external IP (finally) through ADMZ on my UDM Pro but could not for the life of me get the internet. I solved it by just putting in the PPPOE credentials.

Can you please detail for me how you solved this? What are the cons with your approach? 

[Vanadiel]

The routing table when putting the HH3000 in advanced DMZ mode is wrong, so you will experience issues.

On the UDM, this is what you have to do:

Under routing, create a static route with the following parameters:

- Name: whatever you like

- Distance: 1

- Destination network: 0.0.0.0/1

- Type: Interface

- Interface: WAN

Reboot both modem and UDM, and it should work in advanced DMZ. 

[Jaha]

Arnaud, could you go over how you got the fibe TV box to work, on ethernet, on your switch?  I'm trying the same, no joy.

My setup:

- gigahub lan port to asus AX92U wan port.  Dmz and admz turned on, upnp off, dhcp on

-pppoe credentials on asus, no issues.  24 port managed netgear switch connected to asus lan

- it connects to bell wifi with a 192.168.22.x ip

- it grabs a wired ip from my asus192.168.2.x

- no joy if I turnoff bell wifi

[Jaha]

Oops, just saw Arnaud has left Bell. For the rest of the group/help, Wondering out loud, could I turn off dhcp on my asus to ensure any/all devices get a 22.xip from the gh?

[Stickyfingers]

I was able to get ADMZ working once more however I will leave it as is for a few days to see if I start getting drops again. My Setup:

HH4000 + UDM-PRO + SFP+ RJ45 module from SFP Port 10 to HH4000

HH4000:

DMZ ON

ADMZ and entered a device manually (mac address) of the SFP+ WAN port from the UDM-PRO.

to get your mac address from the WAN port I ssh'd into my UDM-PRO and ran this:

Yes, each port has it's own MAC address. For anyone in the future, to get the proper MAC address for your internet ports:

SSH into UDMP or Debug terminal from the controller, then:

ifconfig | grep eth

The MAC address for SFP+ port 10 will be listed at the bottom.

took that MAC address and added it manually to through ADMZ on HH4000.  In my case, there was a different mac address for 10G and 1G

Restarted HH4000.  Setup UDM-PRO static route to 0.0.0.0/1 interface to WAN.

Given this I am getting a 192.xxx IP (not the public IP) so effectively I am double NAT'd however I am getting over 6gbps symmetrically consistently.

When I was getting the public IP w/ADMZ, everything would be great for about a week and then I couldn't resolve internet sites. Ubiquiti said it was a DNS issue. It's certainly a bell issue. What's weird is that some sites would resolve ie costco.ca but 90% couldn't.

This double nat situation seems to work fine for the time being.  Will see if after a week I start experiencing the same nonsense and if that happens I guess I'll stick to PPPOE at reduced speeds.

[OhWhy]

Bell Fiber (White Giga Modem) - 2nd PPPoE login no longer works. Trying Advanced DMZ - Any luck in getting this working?

Summary

1. Switched to Bell Fiber 1.5/1gigabit (D/U) around Nov 2023 (from Cogeco) after was assured that I could use a my own firewall via PPPoE (Modem to be put in bridge mode).
2. Wasn't able to get the modem into bridge mode but was able to still use PPPoE with my firewall to bypass the bell modem local network
3. As of the 2nd of March, Can no longer get a working routable internet assigned IP address via  PPPoE login with my pfSense firewall  (Getting a non-rootable 74.14.x.x  address instead of the normal 184.146.x.x)
4. Called Bell support, and was bumped to 2nd level support who I don't think understood anything I said, wasn't able to solve my issue, nor allow me to talk with someone else (Wasn't impressed ).  The phone connection wasn’t very good, which didn't help (Most likely over seas support)

Now Looking to try and replace functionality (which has been working for 4 months), either by getting PPPoE working again, or via the Advance DMZ option from within Bell modem web interface – Anyone able to get it working to avoid double nat issues?

Thanks

Paul

[BellPatricia]

Hi @OhWhy,

Welcome to the Bell Community 🙂

You can access DMZ / Advanced DMZ settings in the Advanced Tool section of the modem GUI (192.168.2.1).

For some additional tips check out this helpful reply, and let the community know if you have any other questions.

- Patricia

[Taurus]

I have tried using Advanced DMZ , it works for a few hours then breaks down, the modem becomes un responsive and I have to restart it. using PPPOE also has issues and I am still double NATted for some reason even though my router gets assigned a public IP address!

[Vanadiel]

How do you know you are double NATted? If your router get's assigned a public IP you should not be double NATted.

[Stickyfingers]

My UDM gets a dhcp address assigned by the gigahub. ADMZ works for a short time (a couple of weeks) then it starts causing many problems so I gave up. PPPOE speeds are not ideal as I want to utilize as much bandwidth as I can that’s available to me on the 8gb service. 

[Vanadiel]

I don't have a HH4000, but my understanding is ADMZ mode is designed in a way that the HH still does the PPPOE overhead handling of the packets.

The only way around that is to use PPPOE, but as you have already experienced the UDM is not capable of handling the PPPOE overhead at an 8/8 service.

I found my UDM to be lacking on that front also, and it was not able to sync the SFP+port at 2.5/2.5. It can only sync at 1 or 10 Gbps.

So I switched it out to a Mikrotik 5009, which can sink the SFP+ port at 2.5/2.5. I can get the full 1.5 of my plan with that solution, and get completely rid of the HH.

8/8 is going to be difficult to process PPPOE packets, unless you want to throw big bucks at it. That's unfortunately the downside of PPPOE with high speed connections, the PPPOE overhead.

[Stickyfingers]

I’m waiting for the UDMP-pro-max and hoping it’ll be better. Definitely don’t need full 8/8 but around 4/4 is a reasonable ask.